DSis says I'm awful for not letting her give DD14 a smartphone and that my gift for her is ridiculous, outdated and cruel.

[LuckyJadeMember]

DD14 is not allowed to have a smartphone. She uses a flip phone and has a thinkpad as well and is perfectly fine with it. Her birthday is next Sunday.

She likes to listen to music and the radio, but her phone doesn't have a music player so I bought a fiio music player on amazon, this one. It's 50 quid, and a nice blue colour. I also got her a case and screen protector for it.

I know what bands she listens to, so I went and bought some MP3 albums off bandcamp and amazon music, and put them on the MP3 player, and gave her a £100 bandcamp gift card too so she can buy some more music.

I also got her a nice portable canon as the camera on her phone is a bit naff, this one.

My sister met with me today because she wanted to show me what she got for her. It was an iPhone, the latest model. I said that she's not meant to have one, and that she won't be getting it so it'd be best to return it. It ended up in an argument, and DSis left the house angry. She called me later to yell at me and tell me how cruel I am for not allowing her to have a smartphone, and called me 'awful' and insulted my gifts several times.

AIBU?

Smartphones existed 15 years ago. DS1 was born in 1998, so experienced having a very basic flip phone before iPhones started to become commonplace.

There were nowhere near the issues we hear about now in terms of mental health and exploration.

I think the biggest difference is that social media algorithms are now more addictive and based on short-form content. TikTok didn’t exist when DS1 was at school and even Facebook didn’t have limitless scrolling.

I do think governments should look at going back to a less addictive algorithm for under 16s.

There is plenty of psychological research showing that children’s mental health severely reduced once smartphones because popular in 2014. Girls’ mental health was particularly badly affected. Managers/ tech bros who work at Apple/ equivalents don’t give their children much tech because the research is so damning. You’re doing your daughter a favour.

Hundreds? The latest iPhone is well over a grand!

@JonesTown we seem to be agreeing. Yes smartphones existed but most teens didn't have them and they weren't seen as a necessary permanent addition for anyone in double digits. Some of the posts on here are entirely ignoring the fact that there are significant neurological factors in play in teenage brains and the arguments that may be relevant for adult usage are not as compelling for teens. As for the 'she'll get bullied' arguments...I despair. Actually the teens I work with are more accepting than ever of difference and individual style. Adults should be countering the narrative that you should do x to fit in, not feeding it.

Stand your ground OP, especially given your daughter isn’t even battling for it!

My daughter is one and and family members are repeatedly banging a phone in her hand and I’m at the end of my tether asking politely that they don’t.

The fact you’ve got to nearly 15 has given me hope that it can be done.

I haven’t got a clue why anybody would want to expose a schoolchild to it. I’m 31 and I had a smartphone at 11. I am certain that had the risks been known my parents would have refused to give me one. Now we know.

Regarding your sister, she can hold onto it a year or two for when your daughter transitions into adulthood.

Are you the OP, I'm confused by the change of name. 😊

What a lovely kid you’ve got! I would’ve loved if mine never asked for one, they asked me from year 4 as there were kids in their class with a phone!! Obviously I didn’t give them a phone! I finally gave in when they started year 7 as by then all their friends had one with the exception of one. I also needed to contact them which is also why I gave them a phone. I hate that they are constantly on the phone unless I take it away. It’s so frustrating. I wish other parents didn’t so easily give their kids a phone from such a young age! It’s really damaging

@aneelli you could have given her a non smart phone. Also, put parental controls on eg Google family. You can lock it, restrict apps, set downtime etc without having to physically remove it.

Yep, clearly the OP and this poster are the same person. This username has even replied directly to the OP. Reported for trolling and socking, hopefully others do the same.

Adults should also be countering the notion that a device is sentient and responsible for how it is used. It concerns me that instead of concerning ourselves with why, when faced with a device that has an 'off' button, we blame the device for our inability to use it.

We're teaching our teens that they are helpless, that to own a useful piece of technology is to be ruled by it. That there is nothing that they, as sentient beings, can do to guard against this other than simply not owning one.

We're teaching them to fear the technological advancements of the world they will be adults in, rather than teaching them how to take control of it. We are sleepwalking into having our lives dominated by technology because, somewhere along the line, we've bought into this idea that the devices make us doomscroll, bully other people, play addictive games, whatever.

It's just another excuse to abdicate responsibility for ourselves, isn't it? Another blame game to play. Let's not bother to learn about the choices we can make to make a useful tool work for us, let's just give in and not bother with it.

Like it or not, the world will be run, not by the machines, but by the people who spend their time both understanding them and developing them. The best way to counteract the negative effects of the tools the very clever people know how to make, and some unpleasant people know how to use to their advantage, is to understand how to use them ourselves. And to know that we, the general public, are still in control.

That doesn't mean we should be handing smartphones out to teens, but it does mean we need to be very careful not to pass on to them the notion that the tools of their world are not something they can have control over whilst using them.

You cant change user names on a post you've started under one username, you must continue under the username you wrote the post under originally. OP could change username if starting a different thread.

You can if you're using different accounts. It's called sock-puppetry and it's not allowed on Mumsnet. It's sometimes suspected, but occasionally someone messes up and accidentally posts from the wrong account...

If she’s happy with this (which I’m most surprised by) then crack on, it doesn’t matter
really. I’d be worried about her being left behind socially, that’s the only thing but perhaps her group of friends are similar? It’s unusual imo, I’d say the vast majority of teens own one (as do adults) and also partake in some level of social media/online gaming, even if it’s just WhatsApp or Roblox.

Do you think the post is a wind up? Why would the OP do this? Just curious how things work.

15 isn’t a younger child.

The whole thread was a wind up anyway, the OPs outed herself by posting from her sock account and confirming that DD loved the presents she received!

Obviously someone who has too much time on her hands, maybe she’d be better off playing on an iPhone!

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s come from one of these ‘campaign groups’ keen to push their agenda.

They are desperate to pretend that lots of teens are perfectly happy with no phone.

Too much time on her hands and no iPhone to play on!

Ah Im with you now

I think posters got really carried away on this thread anyway, banging the drum about being smartphone free. My kids are adults. They were dependent on phones for school messaging and homework, buses to school and back, lifts from activities etc etc etc. They never got into any trouble through smartphone use and aren't particularly interested in them as adults. People got really evangelical about being technology free.

People can easily have numerous accounts and post under different names.

Absolutely!

My DD and three of her friends just don’t want smart phones… yeah righto!!

Completely agree. I can understand those that have them for their children as we are generally put in an impossible situation with regard to smartphone use with older children. But actively trying to persuade a parent who seems perfectly happy with their decision, as does their daughter, with all the evidence of the harms they cause, is just bizarre. And your daughter has friends doing the same as her? Absolutely priceless! Hold on to that OP! I hope I’m like you when dd is 14.

the ‘she’ll be behind with tech stuff is hilarious too - there’s no skill in smartphone use? They’re not all on their phones coding now are they. They’re SCROLLING and watching inane videos. There is
clear evidence now to show that IQs are dropping since smartphones became ubiquitous.

my child is 10 and already has a couple of friends with smartphones. One has had it since Year 2 although only started bringing it out in the last year or 2 😳 I’ve known in my heart since I had DC that smartphones would be a disaster for children, and so they are. I will fend it off for as long as I possibly can. You’re brilliant! Im realistic though and do suspect mine will be clamouring for one by secondary however… I will play it by ear.

Yeah this is ending. Schools where I am are all starting to ban smartphones on site at all and they won’t now be used for school work at all.

Indeed. It was a measure at my school for a while, especially immediately post covid when we moved into Teams but now phones are handed in first thing and students have devices connected via school WiFi.

Why is this thread still up when the OP has been shown to be socking?