To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

[ByRoseSnake]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this - maybe I'll get some insights here. I just feel like I'm parenting my own 70+ parents at this point.

I'm tearing my hair out - and, basically, scared shitless. While I've been struggling to build an independent life and career 300+ miles away for the past 10yrs, my tiny family (who I love dearly) have pretended that time doesn't pass at all.
(For the record, there is only 3 in my family, due to family deaths and no extended family, enforced social isolation etc - so it's just my 2 parents, my older brother who is 30 + has never left home, apparently autistic but refuses to be formally diagnosed, or pull any of his own weight...)

While it's nice to pretend that time doesn't pass, I have been gently asking them for a long time about how they wish to proceed with wills, funerals, life after death, how to manage selling their house etc... This has been going on for over 6 yrs and I've had nothing from them. Apparently the wills are "none of my business", but it lives in "a draw" somewhere - according to my dad. My mum says she has no idea and sighs and just says "oh dear". They have no idea how much the house is even valued at... I'm in no way trying to dig around or pry, but should I at least know where they keep the wills, and have a basic awareness of what to do when they pass??

The main problem is that my dad is a high-functioning alcoholic, but also they are all chronic hoarders, saying for years they will "sort things out". It has only become worse. I'm talking having to make pathways of clutter just to enter certain rooms - in a 3 bedroom house. It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...
(for context: I visit home, spend 4hrs cleaning and sorting books, gadgets and crap into boxes, which my parents promise will be taken to charity shops/tip - only to visit 2 months later and it's back in the same place urrrghhh.)

I don't have complaints against people spending their own money - at whatever age - on what they enjoy, but his attitude deeply concerns me. When I earnestly asked "what would you like us (me) to do with all of this stuff when you pass? Shouldn't we be sorting out what is sentimental, of value and important now, rather than later?" He just replied - "I don't care. You can just pay to order a skip and throw it all in there. I'll be dead anyway."
:( Thanks Dad. I don't even know where family photos and documents are stored etc

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.
And my brother doesn't even know how to boil an egg, let alone help with these things - he just runs off to his room and says "that's your problem" to me... He hasn't even registered that he'll be homeless if this isn't established, once the time comes. He's been living at home for 10yrs and didn't even know what a metre reading was when I visited at Christmas. I'm definitely not becoming his replacement mummy.

But then I feel like I'll be entirely alone in the world - no family, and a huge amount of mess, memories and mental turmoil to clean up. And no idea about where and how money is going with house sale - or care homes, if that does come up.

It's keeping me up at night - while I'm just simply trying to build my own little life (while keeping the family peace!)

I'm so, so tired of feeling like I have to parent them all. I've tried so hard to talk to them rationally.
And yeah.
Scared shitless about the future AIBU for that, given circumstances?

Why does it become your issue though? Just leave them to it.

I think because I feel responsible in a lot of ways. Not just in terms of the assets, but also my sibling and the memories attached to a lot of things.

I would generally agree with the "leave them to it" ethos, but this one scares me a lot. I wish it could feel like more of a family thing, rather than just being in denial and expecting me to pick up the pieces? I don't know :(

I’m sorry OP. I’m a trusts and estates lawyer with limited experience in probate and what you’ve described is sadly very common. You have no legal right to see their Wills while they are still alive and frustratingly there is nothing you can do to force someone to plan for their passing. Some people’s plan is just to let their kids sort it out when they die with no guidance.

It sounds to me like this might me more than about the Will and probate. I sympathise as an eldest daughter with a useless sibling. Your instinct is to take control of a situation that feels messy and stressful. And it’s a hard lesson for people like us that sometimes we can’t, especially where other people are involved.

There are services that can help with sorting after your parents pass ie not just throw it all in a skip. There is a Tell Us Once service from the government to inform most government authorities of a death. You can hire a solicitor for the probate although I appreciate funds may be limited. But once you are in it I promise it’s not as bad as you are imagining.

But they don’t sound as is they are going to change so you could likely be worried for years.

Your brother is an adult he will have to figure it out himself when the time comes.

You are spending their twilight years just worried about what will happen when they are gone.

While I understand it's stressful for you knowing you're going to have to deal with all of this eventually, I don't think it's ok to badger them about it or keep reminding them that they're going to die soon. They don't want to sort their crap out or discuss their death with you; that's their prerogative so you're just going to have to let it drop.

Thank you, that's really useful to know from a legal and service point of view! I think a lot of my anxieties are also coming from a lack of knowledge regarding these processes - not just the family dynamics

This is also really, really important to remember. I will try to keep that in mind (and my anxiety at bay) that they will not actually want to be thinking about end of life... I do treasure them.

If only my sibling could be on the same page! I can't force him either, but wow - it's hard feeling like you carry the whole load, hey.

I’m sorry you are going through this. It’s very tough when only one sibling pulls their weight. From a similar dealing with an elderly hoarder experience I can tell you that the defining point was the occupational therapist explaining to the people concerned that they wouldn’t be returning to their house until it was sorted so that it was no longer a hazard for them or carers. For some reason someone in ‘authority’ saying it has to be sorted can help in these circumstances.

The other point I’d make is that you might need to face the fact that your worst case scenario is that your parents may have made your brother the sole beneficiary of their estate due to his ‘need’ being greater than yours in their eyes and you the executor. Crap, but possible. Also possible is that only one of them has actually made a will..also a buggers muddle to sort depending on who passes first.

Re:care home fees - things are fluid -changing depending on need so it’s a bridge you’ll have to cross as you come to it. What is unlikely to change from the scenario you describe is that the lions share of sorting elderly parents will most likely fall onto you which is incredibly stressful, especially as you are 300miles away. Why not pop over to the elderly parents board - lots of people going through similar experiences- great place to vent and also get advice. 💐

I am sorry that you worry about being alone in the world, but the best strategy for preventing that might be to spend less time running around after these dysfunctional people and more time cultivating relationships that are actually valuable and nourishing.

Honestly, leave them alone and get on with your own life, no one is benefitting from this constant conflict. I know you probably want your own house but they sound like the sort of people to leave it all to Battersea Dogs Home anyway out of perversity.

So stop sorting boxes for hours on end . It doesn’t sound like they are asking / wanting it to be done. You are just being a martyr by doing it, then complaining about them not getting rid of it.
Do you actually know that are immediately dying? 70+ year olds can easily still go another ten years or more. Are you planning to keep hounding them, making yourself stressed, achieving nothing for another decade.
I half expect to be slated for posting this… ‘you clearly don’t understand’. But remember I am not someone spending hours doing unwanted jobs for someone who isn’t helping themselves. Your choice.

Your parents sound frustrating but yabu. I'm a minimalist but not everyone is. Let them enjoy their stuff now. When they pass away, which could be many years as pp mentioned, deal with it. Get a skip or house clearance company. Why fuss over wills? Surely their estate would be quite simple if it's just you and your brother.

Hasseling them about what to do at their funerals is just morbid. Do what you like or don't have a funeral.

My parents have planned poorly but you just have to let it go. You can't make them and they have to live life their own way. I'm just resigned to calling social services for them when the time comes that it catches up to them and things fall apart.

YABVU. Your parents could be around anothe two decades. Just detached yourself from it and i live your own life not theirs. Your dad is right, the hoarding is nothing a skip can't handle and that's where all my dads shit will be going one day but I certainly don't care about it now.

@ByRoseSnake

Tfere used to be a tv show in the US called
”Hoarders.”
It was horrifying, but it was like a car crash - it was terrible but you couldn’t look away.
So that’s how I know about hoarders - except the ones on the tv show were extreme and that’s why they were on the show..
But I remember one lady in particular - she was a hoarder and there were pathways through her house too.
She was isolated because hoarding is a mental illness and she withdrew from everyone and every type of community gathering that might have brought her friends.
Anyhow, people finally noticed that she hadn’t been seen for quite some time, so they went looking for her.
The police were brought in, and they broke into her home. All they could see were piles and pile of junk and pathways, but no woman.
After several days, the smell alerted them to her body - it was buried under large pile of clothes and other items.
Evidently, the pile fell on her and she couldn’t get out from underneath - she was smothered.

I only tell you this in the hope that you could relay it to your parents. Maybe if they heard a tragic story about hoarding, they might mend their ways.

Sending love from faraway ❤️

OP I think you are being unreasonable to have spent the last few years so focused on this. They don’t care so why do you? Just leave them be. Stop going in and decluttering their house. Let them live their last few years without you hassling them and just get on with your life. You can’t control how they live their life or when they die just let it go before it consumes yours.

Just hire a skip or a house clearance company when the time comes and move on.

I understand and have been through this.

if you would like my advice, back off and don’t try to work it out or even think about it.

You could be dead before them. Don’t waste your life worrying about hoarders, they care about themselves.

Back away and live your life as happily as you can each day. Good luck x

I'm assuming that your parents are being so cagey about their will because they are leaving all their assets, including the house, to your brother.

As other posters have said, there isn't anything that you can do about their reluctance to have a conversation about what happens after they did, but you can stop cleaning and tidying when you visit or even cut down on your visits if you are finding it all too stressful.

Whatever you do, don't accept the role of carer for your brother after your parents die.

Some people don’t like to talk about death. Not much you can do here. Maybe offer to help clear some clutter gradually, as you’ll be sorting it one day no doubt. A friend passed suddenly last year and her daughter and I spent months clearing out her flat, one room you could barely get in.

They sound very stressful.

but with the best will in the world, people don’t really like to make plans about their own deaths. Lots of people don’t show their wills in advance. Very few people sit down with their children and plan their own funeral.

the thought of death is upsetting to most people and many deal with it by not dealing with it.

the good news is that they do have wills. It’s a good start. And there is a house, so if one or both of them need to go into care there is some money.

it may help you to research the process of what happens when someone dies - my dad died a few years ago and we used the tell us once service which honestly sorted a lot of stuff out for us. The funeral directors were very helpful and talked us through the arranging a funeral process - most of the people they deal with have not arranged one before and so they are very experienced at guiding you through the process.
we got a solicitor to sort out getting probate and dealing with the will which was about 3k if so remember correctly.

They have no idea how much the house is even valued at...

They're living in it. Why should they need to know this?

It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...

he’s not spending his savings or drawing down on the precious house equity you’re worried about, he’s spending his pension on his retirement which is what I thought pensions are for?

I’m sorry to share this @ByRoseSnake but I think you’re being a little bit unreasonable.

The only reason I’m saying this is because it feels like you are auditing your parents because you have (rightly or wrongly) placed a lot of stock on your future happiness, on your ability to be ‘rewarded’ by a decent inheritance.

Not knowing therefore

• what the care home fees arrangement might be (will it take from house sale or equity)
• if your father is “frittering away” money that could be available after passing
• not knowing the house valuation

seems to cause you anxiety for the future.

In the meantime both your parents are here, which is more than I can say sadly.

I wish you luck resolving this, but I think you’ll have to accept at some point that you cannot control certain things.

You just need to let it go.

My parents are like this and I doubt they even have wills.
They’re not going to change and so me keeping on at them is not going to help and all it does it stress me out.

When they die, you will just need to try and find the will and any photos that you want to keep and get a company to throw the rest of the stuff out.

I doubt your brother will be of much help.

You seem too much the other way (why would have they their home valued) but that’s due to your parenting.

Unfortunately your DB seems to have followed in your parents footsteps whilst you have gone the opposite way - which is good in some ways but you also need to be careful it doesn’t lead to anxiety over the things you can’t control.

Let it go and deal with it once they’ve gone.
They’re not going to change.

Is part of your worry coming from a feeling that there is an expectation that you will take responsibility for your sibling (either from your parents or him) once they are gone?
Does he have additional needs?

Dysfunctional or not, I really think you need to drop this. Are they actually dying, either of them? You sound really panicky and there’s no need. Leave them alone. Stop with the sorting and the questioning.

Some people refuse to discuss wills because they think that by doing so, this will somehow expedite their death. My df was like this and he managed to get my dm round to the same way of thinking. It is what it is.

I understand it is frustrating, my parents would not put anything into place and it feels like banging your head against a wall, however it is not your job to solve it all, if they have got to the age they are and haven’t changed they’re not going to now, like your dad says when he’s dead he won’t care so if it comes to it just get a house clearing company in and dump the whole lot. They’re not going to stop hoarding now so let them get on with it. Enjoy your life and stop worrying about theirs, you won’t change them now.