To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

[ByRoseSnake]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this - maybe I'll get some insights here. I just feel like I'm parenting my own 70+ parents at this point.

I'm tearing my hair out - and, basically, scared shitless. While I've been struggling to build an independent life and career 300+ miles away for the past 10yrs, my tiny family (who I love dearly) have pretended that time doesn't pass at all.
(For the record, there is only 3 in my family, due to family deaths and no extended family, enforced social isolation etc - so it's just my 2 parents, my older brother who is 30 + has never left home, apparently autistic but refuses to be formally diagnosed, or pull any of his own weight...)

While it's nice to pretend that time doesn't pass, I have been gently asking them for a long time about how they wish to proceed with wills, funerals, life after death, how to manage selling their house etc... This has been going on for over 6 yrs and I've had nothing from them. Apparently the wills are "none of my business", but it lives in "a draw" somewhere - according to my dad. My mum says she has no idea and sighs and just says "oh dear". They have no idea how much the house is even valued at... I'm in no way trying to dig around or pry, but should I at least know where they keep the wills, and have a basic awareness of what to do when they pass??

The main problem is that my dad is a high-functioning alcoholic, but also they are all chronic hoarders, saying for years they will "sort things out". It has only become worse. I'm talking having to make pathways of clutter just to enter certain rooms - in a 3 bedroom house. It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...
(for context: I visit home, spend 4hrs cleaning and sorting books, gadgets and crap into boxes, which my parents promise will be taken to charity shops/tip - only to visit 2 months later and it's back in the same place urrrghhh.)

I don't have complaints against people spending their own money - at whatever age - on what they enjoy, but his attitude deeply concerns me. When I earnestly asked "what would you like us (me) to do with all of this stuff when you pass? Shouldn't we be sorting out what is sentimental, of value and important now, rather than later?" He just replied - "I don't care. You can just pay to order a skip and throw it all in there. I'll be dead anyway."
:( Thanks Dad. I don't even know where family photos and documents are stored etc

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.
And my brother doesn't even know how to boil an egg, let alone help with these things - he just runs off to his room and says "that's your problem" to me... He hasn't even registered that he'll be homeless if this isn't established, once the time comes. He's been living at home for 10yrs and didn't even know what a metre reading was when I visited at Christmas. I'm definitely not becoming his replacement mummy.

But then I feel like I'll be entirely alone in the world - no family, and a huge amount of mess, memories and mental turmoil to clean up. And no idea about where and how money is going with house sale - or care homes, if that does come up.

It's keeping me up at night - while I'm just simply trying to build my own little life (while keeping the family peace!)

I'm so, so tired of feeling like I have to parent them all. I've tried so hard to talk to them rationally.
And yeah.
Scared shitless about the future AIBU for that, given circumstances?

I think @LadyMacbethWasFierce and @Lougle have written particularly helpful posts.

For me, deciding to have therapy wasn’t about my parents, but it did help me with all my relationships and my own life. You really might benefit as well.

@ByRoseSnake You sound like my elder stepson. I am in my mid-70s and my partner is mid-80s. We live in the UK. The self-important child (a civil servant in his 50s) persisted in interfering and giving unwanted, unhelpful and impractical advice - despite having no clue about anything and living 5,000 miles away.

We are perfectly competent - at least, I am! It hasn't ended well for him and I would say if you have any sense, back off now.

I’m firmly in the let them get on with it camp.
I do think you need to prepare yourself for them to leave everything to your brother, due to his apparent greater need, and to name you as executor in the will.
It’s important to know that you do not have to take on the role of executor if you don’t want to even if named in the will. This isn’t my area of law so if it happens you should take advice because if you want to recuse yourself you must ensure you haven’t “meddled” in the estate.
Personally, if this happened to me I would not act as executor and would let my brother get on with it.

I think a greater priority is probably to make clear to them that you won’t be stepping in to look after your brother

How old are you @ByRoseSnake ?

Having read a previous thread by OP I think she’s just come out of an awful relationship and so probably is feeling isolated and stressed.
Now both my parents are gone, I realise it’s just a time of change - the level of feeling depends upon your relationship with them.
This couple live in chaos and are happy to do so - leave them to it, they aren’t going to change.
They probably don’t have a will. If they do the may not remember where it is. If they have and have left everything to the brother, that I do understand.
Instead of spending time humping boxes about I would spend the time with my brother. He is the one who needs support, and in a way he feel comfortable.
He may not have vocalised it but he’s probably anxious about being alone one day. The best thing you can do is be there for him.
Can you help with some basic life lessons that go at his pace?
It doesn’t have to be dull, either.

You live 300 plus miles away… how often do you actually see them?

I wouldn't bother tidying up and shifting things in boxes if you aren't going to take them away. They will only reopen them or buy to replace. This is a waste of your physical and mental energy so don't do it. Re the will like another poster said be prepared that they will likely give the house and whatever else to your brother.

Cleaning the home, arranging funerals will be a thankless task that will fall on you. Kept it simple, don't allow it to twist you up in knots or keep you up at night. You hire a skip and do it yourself or use a removal company.They get to choose how they live,once they pass then it is up to you how you respond.

WTF? "Mend their ways"???? Who are you the life police?? You'd want them to live in a way that's alien to them for the remainder of their lives, sat in a minimalist environment devoid of their possessions just because you deem it "better" 🙄

OP, as PP's have said, get on with your own life, your parents may live for another 20 years, and at the end of the day it is their life to live.

They are grown adults and you shouldn’t be wasting energy on parenting them.

The only thing I would do is make sure they have wills.

They don’t need to discuss house sale etc with you if they’re clearly uncomfortable with it. When parents die and probate is completed, you:

1. Take any valuables, photo albums etc
2. Hire a clearance company to empty the house
3. Sell the house

It’s really simple, don’t overthink it. They will not change no matter how hard you try

My adult dd had taken to policing dh and I - were in our 50’s - it seems she thinks she knows how we should live our lives, my sil does this to mil too - what is it with daughters being bossy and controlling- allow you parents to live life the way they want to - I love my daughter but if she continues to try to police my choices (and if she behaved like you) she will ruin our relationship because I’m done tolerating her nonsense. Op you need to gain some self control and butt out.

Your update makes it sound as if the problem is predominantly with your father, possibly made worse by your mother not challenging him.
As in so many situations you need to separate this into strands and also focus on things you can change.
Maybe don’t ask about wills and end of life on your next visit, take your mother out somewhere and try to have a chat, ask open questions, is there anything she is worried about, is there anything you can do to help…?
Be led by her. Have you told her about organisations for families of alcoholics? Does she ever visit you rather than you go to them?
You have learned that you can’t control the hoarding so stop trying.
For yourself, keep building a full, rich life doing things that bring you satisfaction and pleasure. Consider doing some work on controlling your anxiety, learning how to switch off the constant worry. Maybe set aside a time each week to speak to your mother and think about it then put it aside mentally.
Try to find some black humour if you can.

You might not have to carry any load as they may leave everything to your brother.

I thought the user name sounded familiar.

OP you mention in that other that you have ADHD and PTSD, several dysfunctional previous relationships and that you are in therapy but you do also reference "supportive family and friends" which is good.

Really, concentrate on yourself, you are not your parents parent. Let it go. Just do you.

Tbh I think it's a bit strange to be badgering them about what they want you to do with their things after they're dead and stressing about house value, surely it is quite normal to have a house valued when the time comes? My parents are around 70 and it wouldn't even cross my mind to ask them now what they want me to do with their things.

Fair enough they are being unreasonable not to tell you where their will is in case the need arises, but otherwise I don't really see why this is causing you any stress right now.

I understand how upsetting this must feel for you. To reiterate others, I think there is a strong possibility they have left the house to your brother. It sounds like they have never tried/been able to teach him to adult independently. On that basis can you ask about POA on the grounds of that making it much easier for you to support your brother? Is there anything in the house that is sentimentally valuable to you that you could ask to take now? Instead of boxing stuff up, could you suggest reviewing family photos together and get access to them that way? Just trying to think of ways you could achieve something that alleviates some of your anxiety without causing upset.
Otherwise unfortunately I don't think there's much you can do to change things at this point.

If you want to learn more, I can recommend looking at the Sadmin courses from Rainbow Hunting. She's a widow and former wills and probate solicitor and great at helping people get this side of their lives sorted. Obviously more ideal for your parents, but if they won't you can start learning more

My DH and I are in our 70s but we don't feel we are near death. Our affairs are clearly arranged and our DD (only child) knows roughly what is in our will so I can understand your anxieties about what the future holds but it's clear that keeping on is getting you nowhere.
It seems strange to me that your parents are not prepared to discuss their will/wills at all.
Some parents get very worried if they have one child more vulnerable than the other and I'm wondering whether the reason they won't discuss their wills is because they have left the house entirely to your brother and don't want to tell you.
Of course they can divide their assets any way they choose but I'm thinking that if this is the case you are going to be incredibly hurt, even more so if they are choosing not to tell you. In your position I would want to know where I stand.
I would start gentle asking them if they have thought about where your brother is going to live after they are gone. Ask in an interested, concerned way, not sounding anxious or accusatory and they might open up to you.
In cases where one sibling lives at home all sorts of different arrangements come up in wills. They could be leaving the house to him. They could be leaving it split equally with him having the choice to live on it for the rest of his life or for one year after their death or they could simply have split the assets equally as mostly happens.
I think you need to find out if you can and in any event do be prepared that in the future choices you had never thought of regarding your brothers future living arrangements might have been made 💐

I'd get the thread moved to elderly parents and post something separately in legal.

OP have you thought that they don't want to you to see the will because they've left the house to your brother entirely? If he can't boil an egg they're not going to leave him homeless.

I think you really do need to take a huge step back. Everything you're attempting to sort out now is largely pointless. Even if you did know what they plan to.leave behind now - what difference does it make unless you're planning to try persuading them differently while they're alive?

What will be will be with wills I'm afraid.

Don't become responsible for brother. By doing all this your setting up the expectation for precisely that.

It seems you didn't inherit your ability to organise from your parents. I'm realising how lucky I am because my dad is about 20 years older than your parents and he's sorted his will, got me (even though I have two siblings) to sort out his overflowing garage and wears an apple watch - that he set up and organised himself - so if he fell or worse it would contact me or my siblings.
I'm not trying to gloat I'm just illustrating to some on here that it isn't thoughtful or considerate to be like your parents. It's completely their life to live and their money to leave how they like, but it is a big job to sort through a lifetime of stuff (I had to when our cousin died unexpectedly).
I wonder if they've left everything to your brother, because they won't tell you where the will is. Though by the sounds of it, your dad seems to get some pleasure from winding you up.
Try not to get so upset about it. At the end of the day, if they've left everything to your brother you don't need to do anything when they go.

This is not a large Lladro collection, but a hoarding issue where they have to clear a small pathway to enter any room in a 3 bed house, which is obviously dysfunctional and unsafe which is understandably worrying for OP.

There is a process if they die intestate anyway, you and your brother split the estate 50:50. Don’t worry about any of this OP, you don’t have to deal with it if you can’t or don’t want to. One of them will die before the other anyway, so that will change circumstances- usually men die earlier than women so it may be you can discuss these issues with your Mum once Dad has gone as she may be more open to it. But if not, don’t worry.

Stop borrowing tomorrows troubles OP!
While I agree it must be frustrating, they’re 70, could live another couple of decades, you could die before them, win the lottery, emigrate to Australia…who knows! They’re not your problem to be shepherding, yet. Although that day will likely come, there’s no point spoiling your day to day life worrying if they don’t want to engage.

Let them live how they want, and accept you can’t control behaviour without making your own life stressful.

Im sorry for the stress this is causing you.
You cant see your parents will if they wont show it to you whilst they are alive.
Could you try asking your dad who is executor of his will .
Do you have power of attorney (health and financial)?

Is it possible that your parents have left the house entirely to your brother?

im definitely in the leave them to it camp , there are so many variables that can change in the coming years