To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

[ByRoseSnake]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this - maybe I'll get some insights here. I just feel like I'm parenting my own 70+ parents at this point.

I'm tearing my hair out - and, basically, scared shitless. While I've been struggling to build an independent life and career 300+ miles away for the past 10yrs, my tiny family (who I love dearly) have pretended that time doesn't pass at all.
(For the record, there is only 3 in my family, due to family deaths and no extended family, enforced social isolation etc - so it's just my 2 parents, my older brother who is 30 + has never left home, apparently autistic but refuses to be formally diagnosed, or pull any of his own weight...)

While it's nice to pretend that time doesn't pass, I have been gently asking them for a long time about how they wish to proceed with wills, funerals, life after death, how to manage selling their house etc... This has been going on for over 6 yrs and I've had nothing from them. Apparently the wills are "none of my business", but it lives in "a draw" somewhere - according to my dad. My mum says she has no idea and sighs and just says "oh dear". They have no idea how much the house is even valued at... I'm in no way trying to dig around or pry, but should I at least know where they keep the wills, and have a basic awareness of what to do when they pass??

The main problem is that my dad is a high-functioning alcoholic, but also they are all chronic hoarders, saying for years they will "sort things out". It has only become worse. I'm talking having to make pathways of clutter just to enter certain rooms - in a 3 bedroom house. It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...
(for context: I visit home, spend 4hrs cleaning and sorting books, gadgets and crap into boxes, which my parents promise will be taken to charity shops/tip - only to visit 2 months later and it's back in the same place urrrghhh.)

I don't have complaints against people spending their own money - at whatever age - on what they enjoy, but his attitude deeply concerns me. When I earnestly asked "what would you like us (me) to do with all of this stuff when you pass? Shouldn't we be sorting out what is sentimental, of value and important now, rather than later?" He just replied - "I don't care. You can just pay to order a skip and throw it all in there. I'll be dead anyway."
:( Thanks Dad. I don't even know where family photos and documents are stored etc

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.
And my brother doesn't even know how to boil an egg, let alone help with these things - he just runs off to his room and says "that's your problem" to me... He hasn't even registered that he'll be homeless if this isn't established, once the time comes. He's been living at home for 10yrs and didn't even know what a metre reading was when I visited at Christmas. I'm definitely not becoming his replacement mummy.

But then I feel like I'll be entirely alone in the world - no family, and a huge amount of mess, memories and mental turmoil to clean up. And no idea about where and how money is going with house sale - or care homes, if that does come up.

It's keeping me up at night - while I'm just simply trying to build my own little life (while keeping the family peace!)

I'm so, so tired of feeling like I have to parent them all. I've tried so hard to talk to them rationally.
And yeah.
Scared shitless about the future AIBU for that, given circumstances?

Yet another stressed poster being admonished by sanctimonious responses!
”how dare you get involved op! Your only input will be to sort everything out when the time comes!”
am actually surprised there’s not been the usual “”What provision and support are you putting in place for your brother?! You know you should be arranging for him to move in with you or you should move in with him, after you’ve fully sorted his house of course!!” 🙄

Until you are in your 70s youhave no idea what it feels like. It must be horrible for them that you refer to them dying ( quite often?). You dont seem worried about the loss of your loved ones rather that it might give you some extra work.

I highly recommend reading A Death in the Family by Karl Ove knausgaard. It's all about him dealing with the demise of his alcoholic father and the aftermath of his funeral and a really critical look at his own family. It really gets to the heart of pain, disappointment and love for your parents and the impact it has on everyone. In the meantime as others have said there's no point trying to fix them, try to focus on yourself and just have it in the back of your mind that a shitshow is coming, but it might not be for a long time yet.

Why do you need to see their Wills in advance of death? I suppose it might be helpful to know where they are but, ultimately, this is all up to your parents and their choices.

Firstly, sending lots of support and tea and cake OP. This is hard.

I'm in a not totally dissimilar situation though my sibling is very much better functioning than yours from the sound of it. I have learned (after several years) that you absolutely cannot make people face up to the 'what if's' around their death if they don't want to and yes, it's a bit cruel to keep pushing it. I totally understand that you feel it'll be you picking up the mess, this is where I am too, but I'm at the point of 'well I'll just have to deal with that when it happens' at this point. People do, all the time.

It sounds as if the most likely thing is that you won't need to sell the house when your parents die if your sibling remains living there, which I assume he will want to. Will he want to move? Isn't it likely that your parents will leave you both the house in equal share, in which case I think it's quite difficult to force a sale if someone's living there, especially if it's someone with additional needs / potentially vulnerable. Is he capable of living on his own?

They may also leave him a bigger proportion of house ownership or leave the house to him if they feel he needs it as a main residence. I'm not saying this is fair, but it's a distinct possibility I'd think.

In terms of care costs, as long as an owner is using the house as a main residence its value cannot be used for care costs - it's only if it's sold that the money is realised and then can be used for care costs.

I don't know what the situation would be if both parents went into care and your DB was still living there - that might be something they want to look into. You could mention it to them maybe.

oh I totally get how you’re feeling! I could’ve written this myself a few years ago - my undiagnosed but autistic DB was living with my alcoholic DM in a filthy house full of stuff. My brother had never lived independently and we have very little extended family.

My mum died a couple of years back and I was left to do everything; organise the funeral, sort the house, sell it, deal with probate etc. It was very stressful and took a toll on me, but I’m out the other side now. It’s doable, rubbish but doable.

There’s no point stressing about what’s to come, you’re just doubling the stress. Seek out some therapy for your feelings of responsibility and, when the time comes, hire a good probate solicitor, a deep cleaning company, maybe a house clearance and you’ll be ok.

I don't know what the situation would be if both parents went into care and your DB was still living there - that might be something they want to look into. You could mention it to them maybe. why should op mention it? It’s up to them! Although if by doing so she’s making sure they are aware she’s not taking on any support role for him at least they’ll know!

At base, you can disclaim all responsibility. You absolutely have no control (or right, sorry) over how your family deal with this, the only bit you can control is how you feel and what you do....so I suggest you focus on that and let your parents get on with it.

Might it be that they’re leaving everything to your brother and that’s why they refuse to discuss it with you?? Just a thought.

I’m late 70s, DH is a little older. Our DC don’t refer to us dying, because we have addressed it ourselves. Surely that’s the responsible approach? I’ve witnessed the problems when someone has been secretive, or disinterested in the mess they’ve left for others.

I slightly bullied my parents into getting LPAs - I said I was happy to help with sorting things out but I wasn’t going to get involved unless they had LPAs - I stressed they were welcome to choice who they wanted. I was the obvious person though. It makes everything so much easier.

OP -
you keep mentioning ‘sentimental items’ - what sort of things are you thinking of? Is there a reason you are putting such a big emotional value on them. Apart from a cute photo of us I can’t think I have a single thing of my Dads after he died. All my memories are connected to my memories not ‘things’. You need to try and make your interactions with your parents much more positive. You are ruining making those all
important memories and focusing on physical ‘things’. It’s the wrong way around.

A lot of posters have said that no one deserves an inheritance but I slightly disagree. Inheritances can be life changing and I think part of having kids should be treating them fairly throughout their lives. Parents should obviously spend their money however they want but keeping their children completely in the dark about their intentions is cruel and, often, manipulative.

I think the OPs parents are being very unkind although I can see that they might have found the OP pushy. It might be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds. If I were the OP I’d want to know their plans too.

So would I!

More good insights, thank you.

To quickly clarify, I care deeply for my family - it is not the case that I'm judging them for their ways of living, but rather concern because they themselves speak about how frustrated and overwhelmed they are by the state of the house. My mum tripped while trying to walk through to their bedroom recently. The banjos were a silly example ha, but it really isn't like collecting - it's compulsive and involves the inability to let go of detritus too e.g. old newspapers and broken appliances. My dad's alcohol abuse only adds to the chaos and disorganisation (plus it's upsetting watching him decline in this way).
And they worry a huge amount over my brother, yet nothing has ever been done to encourage independence, sadly.
I will prepare myself for the possibility that they've left the house etc to him, although I'd be surprised, as despite the silence on the will, they have berated the fact that he hasn't learnt how to maintain the home and has never had any source of income. But who knows.

So, it's not so much a greedy urge to know the contents of the will - it's fear of the unknown, because I have literally zero idea of what will be expected of me when the time comes (and where the bloody thing is lol).

I do appreciate that they would rather not be discussing death with their daughter, though.
I'll aim to take them out somewhere nice when I visit next and try to focus on the present.

What happened about your brother? How did he manage to move out before the house was sold?

I have so much sympathy for you, my situation has been similar in the past with my family.

The only thing you can do is take a step back, if they don’t want help, let them do what they want.

What upsets me is when you see hoarding or cess pits of houses on social media getting sorted by professionals and all the comments are like “where is the Family. ”

In most cases, they’ve burnt themselves out trying to help but physically can’t as they are not welcomed to!

I can see why you’re worried about this. My brother, late 50’s, recently diagnosed with autism, lived with my mother until she died. He was very controlling and demanding down to the last detail after she died and I just went along with it. He ended up inheriting her house and pretty much the entire contents. He got quite distressed when I asked to go round to see if there was anything I could have. It was as though he’d had it all planned out in advance.

His needs were always viewed as greater than mine and I think that led to greater entitlement on his part and a feeling of obligation to him from me at the time.

@ByRoseSnake I could have written this some time ago And they worry a huge amount over my brother, yet nothing has ever been done to encourage independence, sadly.

My DB is a lot more functional than yours from the sound of it but my parents did so much for him (washing, paying bills, practical tasks, cooking his meals etc) well into his 40s. I will say as they've declined in health and could no longer do this it's really been the making of him - he's stepped up in a major way. But it's been a lot harder for him (IMO) than if my parents hadn't mollycoddled him for years and had encouraged independence earlier. But nevertheless, he's been great as they've declined. I hope the same is true of your brother. Has he ever lived away from home?

Unfortunately if it's keeping you up at night worrying then you really need to take a back step on this.
While I appreciate that in their passing you're going to have an issue on your hands, I don't think it's worth stressing so much about something that's not happened yet.
You've asked your parents for the information, they won't give it and that am afraid is the end of it. Stop trying to declutter, they also don't want you to do that.

Sometimes families are just unfathomable.

Sorry to hear this.

Whilst sometimes you can understand why parents do these things, it's still very unfair and hurtful for the sibling who is overlooked.

I think hoarding is seen as a mental illness. It does seem to be more common with people who are ND.
Like others said, there's not much you can do now. Look after yourself.

Tbh I think it's a bit strange to be badgering them about what they want you to do with their things after they're dead and stressing about house value, surely it is quite normal to have a house valued when the time comes?

Yes, this.

I totally understand why you're worried about the hoarding, but I don't think it's at all reasonable to be going on at them about getting ready to die, frankly. The fact is that they're still very much alive and therefore they can live exactly as they choose. They don't have to share their wills with you if they don't want to.

Of course they don't need to get the house valued. You'll get that done when the time comes - which could be 20 years away.

I have only just started reading the thread, this really stood out to me “the memories attached to a lot of things” The memories are the memories they don’t need an attached thing to be real, caution that you don’t have some of the hoarding mindset yourself! I have some lovely things that were my mum or nans and I remember using with them but that are practical too. However some things that were so sentimental to them that were “kept for best” I did not keep. I did however feel obliged to try and find a good place to rehome them!

It must be lovely for them to be constantly reminded that they don't have much time left . Just leave them to enjoy their life's in their own way . I'm 75 and if any of my children were doing this to me they'd get short shrift . They can leave their money etc to a whoever they want and you have no right to harass them about it . I m sorry but your post has really annoyed me .

Sorry but you really need to change your mindset.

It doesn’t matter one jot that your logical thinking is 100% correct, but rightly or wrongly it is (very sadly) their choice, and you cannot make them see the light or force them.

The writing has very clearly been on the wall for a very long time. Your DF is an alcoholic and they horrific hoarders. They are not normal functioning people, and you may as well bang your head against a brick wall.

The inevitable will happen one day, and that is when you will need your energy to get through it, and you will 💐

Great post. Good advice, and I wish I'd had someone to tell me this a few years ago!

You can't change people. You have to take them and enjoy your relationship with them for what it is, not what you want it to be. Especially when older as personally I think people are even less likely to change at this point if it's not in their personality to welcome change already.