To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

[ByRoseSnake]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this - maybe I'll get some insights here. I just feel like I'm parenting my own 70+ parents at this point.

I'm tearing my hair out - and, basically, scared shitless. While I've been struggling to build an independent life and career 300+ miles away for the past 10yrs, my tiny family (who I love dearly) have pretended that time doesn't pass at all.
(For the record, there is only 3 in my family, due to family deaths and no extended family, enforced social isolation etc - so it's just my 2 parents, my older brother who is 30 + has never left home, apparently autistic but refuses to be formally diagnosed, or pull any of his own weight...)

While it's nice to pretend that time doesn't pass, I have been gently asking them for a long time about how they wish to proceed with wills, funerals, life after death, how to manage selling their house etc... This has been going on for over 6 yrs and I've had nothing from them. Apparently the wills are "none of my business", but it lives in "a draw" somewhere - according to my dad. My mum says she has no idea and sighs and just says "oh dear". They have no idea how much the house is even valued at... I'm in no way trying to dig around or pry, but should I at least know where they keep the wills, and have a basic awareness of what to do when they pass??

The main problem is that my dad is a high-functioning alcoholic, but also they are all chronic hoarders, saying for years they will "sort things out". It has only become worse. I'm talking having to make pathways of clutter just to enter certain rooms - in a 3 bedroom house. It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...
(for context: I visit home, spend 4hrs cleaning and sorting books, gadgets and crap into boxes, which my parents promise will be taken to charity shops/tip - only to visit 2 months later and it's back in the same place urrrghhh.)

I don't have complaints against people spending their own money - at whatever age - on what they enjoy, but his attitude deeply concerns me. When I earnestly asked "what would you like us (me) to do with all of this stuff when you pass? Shouldn't we be sorting out what is sentimental, of value and important now, rather than later?" He just replied - "I don't care. You can just pay to order a skip and throw it all in there. I'll be dead anyway."
:( Thanks Dad. I don't even know where family photos and documents are stored etc

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.
And my brother doesn't even know how to boil an egg, let alone help with these things - he just runs off to his room and says "that's your problem" to me... He hasn't even registered that he'll be homeless if this isn't established, once the time comes. He's been living at home for 10yrs and didn't even know what a metre reading was when I visited at Christmas. I'm definitely not becoming his replacement mummy.

But then I feel like I'll be entirely alone in the world - no family, and a huge amount of mess, memories and mental turmoil to clean up. And no idea about where and how money is going with house sale - or care homes, if that does come up.

It's keeping me up at night - while I'm just simply trying to build my own little life (while keeping the family peace!)

I'm so, so tired of feeling like I have to parent them all. I've tried so hard to talk to them rationally.
And yeah.
Scared shitless about the future AIBU for that, given circumstances?

Assuming it's just you and your brother if there are no wills the money will pass from one to the other and then to you and your brother. If there are wills I guess they may leave more to your brother if he lives at home. But it is none of your business really. Funerals you deal with when it happens and the value of the house is not important until/unless it is sold after both their deaths.

Why are you getting so upset about this, they are entitled to live their lives without worrying about funerals if the don't want to. And the content of their wills or if they have them or where they are is really none of your business. They could live for another 20 years.

Hard though it is, it’s very common for people not to share what their wills say or make proper plans for death- my parents haven’t shared what’s in their wills or made LPAs.

If you want to be involved you can encourage them but you can’t force them to face any of this, and it sounds as if they’re quite dysfunctional and perhaps won’t ever be ready to face it. You can only control what you do, not what they do.

I would encourage you to detach a little and focus on your own life. You are not obliged to manage anything- even if they have named you as executor, you’re not obliged to do it and can renounce the obligation entirely, or you can just instruct a solicitor to do it and charge the fees to the estate. Likewise there are companies who will clear the house after someone has died- again this can be charged to the estate.

It’s possible that they’re being secretive because they’ve left more to your brother but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case- it’s not unusual to want one’s will to be private whatever it says. But either way I’d build your life on the assumption that there won’t be an inheritance- they could live another 20 years or need care or spend the whole lot on banjos- after all, it is their money. Just try to detach a bit and focus on the things that you can control not the things you can’t.

It’s up to him whether it’s mindless shite or not!! @TheNoisyGreyLion

When I get old, I want the right to be able to spend my money as I please, without judgmental children watching me thinking “oh well I’ll only have to clear this out once you’re gone”

Would people prefer our old just sat there with tablets or screens, all possessions divested of neatly before they pass, so that they don’t become a “burden” to us ?!

OP, have you considered your parents may well leave the house to your brother as hel still lives there?

They sound so dysfunctional I’d walk away . I wouldn’t care a jot about any inheritance , they may well leave it all to the brother anyway knowing he can’t function as an adult . Save your sanity and enjoy your own life . They may be more agreeable to help once in their 80’s and they can’t manage

Just to add being 70 something myself having my DC badger me about funerals and inheritance would not endear them to me. I hope not to pop off any time soon and 70 really isn't that old these days. You could be spending another 20 years worrying yourself about this!

I remember that episode. Was she buried under bags of poo? That program was horrifying as you say, but my god was it educational! Hoarding is often rooted in ocd, or trauma of some sort. If they're not willing to see it as a problem and get some help then there is absolutely nothing you can do.

There are companies you can hire who will clear houses.

This really does sound like one of those unfortunate situations where there is literally nothing you can do before it happens.

Exactly what I was going to say... be very careful after your parents die, OP. Social services will try to force you to care for your brother. You need to talk to him about what he expects will happen once your parents die. You need to spell it out to him you won't have him.

I can sympathise OP, because my parents made no plans for old age/death and although not to the extent of yours they also supported my brother way beyond what is normal for an adult. In their 70s, they were both reasonably fit and any attempts to encourage them to downsize/plan etc was dismissed as none of my business. In their early 80s they both declined rapidly and it became apparent that their expectation was that I would take over responsibility for dealing with anything they couldn't manage (including all the death admin, mum's medical appointments etc, managing the house etc) and supporting my brother.

My advice is to accept that if you have tried to encourage them to plan better and they won't listen it's very unlikely that this will change. Stop spending your time trying to sort out their 'stuff' and spend the time nurturing friendships so you will be less worried about feeling alone.
I think you do need to make it clear that you won't be your brother's carers when they can no longer look after him (which could be years before they pass). It sounds like they are all unlikely to make any changes but I would point out that if he really is unable to look after himself he should seek professional advice so that he could be helped to learn some life skills and/or assistance when needed. They may well not do anything but it may make it easier if/when they can't help him and you don't step in.

I'm afraid that like PP I think it sounds like they have probably decided to leave the house to your brother, as he lives there and (at least in their minds) needs the help. They probably think that means his future is sorted but they clearly haven't considered what happens if they need to pay for care for themselves, or how he would function on a day to day basis. Or possibly they assume he will go to live with you when they pass. I think the only thing you can really do is protect yourself- make it clear that you won't become your brother's carer, put your energies in to building friendships where you live and resign yourself to possibly having to just get someone in to clear their house if it is sold.

Gently - YABU. Don't spend the next years of your life worrying and stressing about this. When it happens you can deal with it then - or walk away.

With dysfunctional families like yours it always takes a crisis to act as thr catalyst for change.

I think if I was 70 and my visiting DD was asking about wills and funerals and burials etc it would put my backup for sure.

I am going to assume you have good intentions but maybe the bull in the china shop did to.

You are going about this all the wrong way. Take a step a back and give it some time-
what is actually the point of your questions?
they aren't going to change-you could try and help clear a bit or organise or look for family photos when home but otherwise I think you're not going to get what you want so either manage your expectations or gently help them now.

Let them get on with it. It doesn’t matter what they want for their funerals. They’ll be dead and will have no idea what happens. Your dad is right in what he said. You could just let the brother stay in the house. Leave solicitors to deal with whatever they have decided in wills. Let estate agents deal with selling the house. Let your brother sort himself out. He’s an adult. You can choose to worry or not. But it’s not your worry.

OP i am in a similar position except that my brother is estranged from us (whole other story)!

My mum is a chronic hoarder and their once pristine huge house is full to the brim with 3 of the 4 bedrooms completely inaccessible.

It drives my dad absolutely demented but my mum has such a strong reaction whenever we bring up clearing the house, he's just given up talking about it.

Luckily I have POA and a folder with all their bank accounts and will for when the time comes.

I have now reached a point where I don't want to ruin the years they have left stressing about the state of their house. I don't have to live there at least!

My parents didn’t plan - I’ve had arguments with my DM about the lack “of a plan”. In reality she won’t make a plan, her quality of life is greatly effected by the lack of planning but I need to sit back and let it play out. I’ve set up shopping, personal fall alarm, made her home safe (it wasn’t) and she has carers going in, I try to see her roughly 8 weeks a year. I’m dreading clearing out the house when the time comes, also knowing that despite there being three other sibling (living much closer than I) it will ALL fall on me.

OP they will plod along, until things happen, such as a fall or illness, then treat each incident by helping them make the best decision in the moment.

Stop “clearing” when you go, clean if you want but clearing is pointless, let them fail a bit.

when it comes to dealing with the house you get your brother to be present and halve the tasks, don’t pander. You can delay between exchange and completion to allow him to secure a rental property.

@ByRoseSnake, do you think they dont want you to see the wills as they are leaving the house to your hopeless brother, as they feel he needs it more than you?

Just a bit of a blanket reply to all posters so far - thank you for responses. They're very constructive and I'll definitely be doing my own research into some of the resources mentioned + legal/practical side of it rather than just panicking. I do appreciate the more critical comments, too. I have definitely been overly fixated and anxious about this, and definitely need to accept what is and isn't within my control and enjoy the time I have left with them.

Just to reiterate, it really isn't about the inheritance itself - more the pain of thinking about "everything going in a skip" and losing anything of sentimental value. Plus the fear of inevitable crisis, carrying the burden solo, plus how my brother will get by, having been more or less entirely dependent on them his entire life. I probably do need to ease back.

In response to one or two comments: yes, I have a successful job, but had a relationship break down a couple of years ago. So that kind of leaves a feeling of being family-less and alone. Great friendship network, but nobody else is considering parental death right now and (understandably) not eager to discuss it when we meet! I am the eldest daughter - and yes, I think we're all ND haha. I recently had an ADHD diagnosis myself (alongside depression and anxiety).

I think I'll look back and smile at my dad's eccentricities and fixation with banjos etc one day! I don't think I'll look back and smile on his alcoholism, which is already causing him worrying health problems and, yes, will likely - or maybe imminently - cut his life much shorter than my mum's. He refuses to give up the drink like he refuses to give up the banjos. But that's another choice in his retirement that I can't control.

Your priorities are all wrong. Why are you so focused on their will and what happens after they die when it sounds like they have a lot of problems right now? If you want to help them, help them now - tackle the hoarding and the alcoholism and any other problems. If you don't want to help them now, leave them alone. The will is entirely irrelevant right now and there is a danger that it will appear that your only focus is their money.

I think the above was really valid advice. With modern healthcare, one or both of them could live for another 15-20 years (my PiL are a moderately healthy 86 despite a few falls and Parkinsons) so it is a bit insensitive to keep asking about death planning. Appreciate their home is a mess, but you just have to close your eyes on that and step away. As a PP above says, there are services to help and - kindly - you may not be included in the will anyway as they may have decided to leave it all to your brother, however unfair that may seem. It could be his problem, not yours.

Hi op, I don't know of you'll read this, you've taken a fair bit of flack, so may have given up on this thread. I just wanted to say I agree with the majority of posters who say you need to let this go. I'm guessing the disorganisation is not a new thing, and also suspect that as a result of your upbringing you are completely the opposite, hence wanting to help your parents get things in order for your own peace of mind.
I think for your own sanity just let them get on with it and deal with whatever arises if and when. You've had lots of advice re house clearance etc. You can't change people, but you can learn to embrace them simply for who they are. You may find as they get older your brother will have to step up, ie getting groceries, paying bills etc. Do not step in and enable him to carry on his merry way, keep that 300 miles between you, and should you have any welfare concerns in the future you let SS deal with them. You can love and support without sacrificing your own life. 💐

I understand the strain of elderly parents, when you’re the only sibling that does anything.

But, 70 isn’t that old, they are together, and you don’t need to see their wills.

As someone nearing 80, I agree. Just because we’re getting old doesn’t mean we have to be selfish! DH and I made our wills several years ago. DS has a copy. There are no secrets. Last year we also set up financial LPAs with them. We are both mentally competent, although we have some ongoing health issues.

We don’t want them to have added stress when we die. Death, particularly in old age, is inevitable, yet some people avoid any mention of it. We don’t dwell on it, but putting things in order was the least we could do.

I understand the OP being concerned about dealing with the aftermath once her parents are gone.

Just leave them to it. Why would you spend 4 hours cleaning somebody else's mess knowing they won't make changes? Unless you get social services involved nothing will change except for your health. You will lose that while they continue to live contentedly in chaos.

I have a lot of sympathy but you have got to take a massive step back for your own good.

In terms of sentimental attachments, make a list of 2-3 things now which you are attached to and maybe ask to get copies of a couple of good photos/ take a few more. Resolve that this might be it and move on.

Then deal with the rest of it when the moment comes- if/ when they move out they might take some stuff with them, you can give yourself and your brother a bit of time to look through other stuff and find the wills, then engage a house clearance company and/ or skip. Many many people do exactly this.

With regard to your brother, he will have an inheritance and will have to stand on his own two feet and/ or get help from social services. You can support him but that’s it.

I think just make your own plan and then move on, try to enjoy their company and avoid getting into conflict over the same thing again and again.

If they will tell you who their solicitor is, that's all you need to know regarding their wills.

Oh yes and I agree, stop sorting their shit out for them on visits. Only help if they ask. Otherwise take them to a coffee shop or a pub so you don’t have to look at it and save yourself a (pointless) job.