To find my dysfunctional 70yr+ parents unbearable for hoarding + wittholding seeing wills?

[ByRoseSnake]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this - maybe I'll get some insights here. I just feel like I'm parenting my own 70+ parents at this point.

I'm tearing my hair out - and, basically, scared shitless. While I've been struggling to build an independent life and career 300+ miles away for the past 10yrs, my tiny family (who I love dearly) have pretended that time doesn't pass at all.
(For the record, there is only 3 in my family, due to family deaths and no extended family, enforced social isolation etc - so it's just my 2 parents, my older brother who is 30 + has never left home, apparently autistic but refuses to be formally diagnosed, or pull any of his own weight...)

While it's nice to pretend that time doesn't pass, I have been gently asking them for a long time about how they wish to proceed with wills, funerals, life after death, how to manage selling their house etc... This has been going on for over 6 yrs and I've had nothing from them. Apparently the wills are "none of my business", but it lives in "a draw" somewhere - according to my dad. My mum says she has no idea and sighs and just says "oh dear". They have no idea how much the house is even valued at... I'm in no way trying to dig around or pry, but should I at least know where they keep the wills, and have a basic awareness of what to do when they pass??

The main problem is that my dad is a high-functioning alcoholic, but also they are all chronic hoarders, saying for years they will "sort things out". It has only become worse. I'm talking having to make pathways of clutter just to enter certain rooms - in a 3 bedroom house. It is mostly my dad's chronic compulsive spending problem e.g. becoming obsessed with a musical instrument and spending his entire state pension on 3 different banjos that never get played again, because he decided he was interested in banjos after watching a YouTube video...
(for context: I visit home, spend 4hrs cleaning and sorting books, gadgets and crap into boxes, which my parents promise will be taken to charity shops/tip - only to visit 2 months later and it's back in the same place urrrghhh.)

I don't have complaints against people spending their own money - at whatever age - on what they enjoy, but his attitude deeply concerns me. When I earnestly asked "what would you like us (me) to do with all of this stuff when you pass? Shouldn't we be sorting out what is sentimental, of value and important now, rather than later?" He just replied - "I don't care. You can just pay to order a skip and throw it all in there. I'll be dead anyway."
:( Thanks Dad. I don't even know where family photos and documents are stored etc

Nobody else seems to have any awareness of how serious the situation is.
And my brother doesn't even know how to boil an egg, let alone help with these things - he just runs off to his room and says "that's your problem" to me... He hasn't even registered that he'll be homeless if this isn't established, once the time comes. He's been living at home for 10yrs and didn't even know what a metre reading was when I visited at Christmas. I'm definitely not becoming his replacement mummy.

But then I feel like I'll be entirely alone in the world - no family, and a huge amount of mess, memories and mental turmoil to clean up. And no idea about where and how money is going with house sale - or care homes, if that does come up.

It's keeping me up at night - while I'm just simply trying to build my own little life (while keeping the family peace!)

I'm so, so tired of feeling like I have to parent them all. I've tried so hard to talk to them rationally.
And yeah.
Scared shitless about the future AIBU for that, given circumstances?

I think the problem is a different one to what you think. When they die they’ll leave everything to your brother in one way or another and still make it your problem to solve. So have a different conversation and tell them that you will not under any circumstances be looking after your brother so please make sure he learns to look after himself.

What a mean comment. The OP has said she doesn’t care that he’s spending his money, it’s just that he’s buying roomfuls of mindless shite that one day she’ll most likely have to deal with.

I feel for you OP, but there isn't much that you can do.

My parents were hoarders & also refused to talk about wills. I would visit & clear out out of date food, rotten fruit & veg etc from the fridge, but my mother would get very upset with me & accuse me of passive-aggressively criticising her housekeeping if I attempted to do anything else such as attempting to sort out the piles of old newspapers, circulars & post littering every surface & on the floor.

I realised that I would just have to suck it up & face the mess once they'd gone. But I worried that all the mess was a fire and trip hazard for them (not to mention encouraging mice, of which we found plenty of evidence).

One of the last things my mother said to me on her death-bed was 'I'm sorry, I've left you a heck of a mess to sort out' all I could say was that I was a big girl & not to worry about it.

They died within 9 months of each other leaving a 4 bed house full of stuff - it took weeks to clear it all out. We employed a solicitor to sort the estate out thinking that they'd died intestate, however eventually (after many weeks) we found wills made about 30 years before they died tucked away in the bottom of a box of papers.

As for your adult brother adult social services will need to step in & possibly find him supported accommodation.

Good luck - I feel for you.

OP I do understand why you find the situation stressful, but you are unreasonable to keep badgering your parents about it.

They do not want to discuss their deaths with you. Please respect that. And when you visit, do not start clearing clutter unless they want you to. It’s up to them how they live.

Your mum could live 20 more years (I say your mum as if your dad really is an alcoholic he probably won’t). She could outlive you (I don’t mean that unkindly, but as someone whose young adult daughter has just died, I know only too well how the future is just so uncertain). Please don’t waste the time you have with your parents by stressing over this. Just let it go. And if you can’t let it go, maybe get some therapy to help you.

I do also agree with some previous posters that it may be that your parents have left your brother the house and that is why they don’t want to discuss this with you. Try to make peace with that possibility.

I do feel for your OP as this is obviously causing you anxiety. Do you have a full and active life of your own? If you do try to make the most of that. And if maybe it’s lacking then I would use your energy on building the life you want for yourself. I wish you well.

Would it help to meet them outside their home? Take them for lunch or to a National Trust place for a coffee? Just for a couple of visits, doesn't have to be forever. Spend time with just your parents, not your parents and ask their stuff. Your brother can come, or not.

You get a break from being stressed about their stuff and they get a break from you (however kindly meant) being stressed about how they live. Just visit them.

When they do finally die a house clearance can sort everything for you, if you want them to. It doesn't have to be months of cleaning and clearing by you alone. It doesn't even have to be you at all, if you don't want to deal with it. You have choices. They don't. And they don't want to talk about their own death so talk about the weather, the Olympics, Susan at work.....

Good luck. It's hard to see the wood for the trees, especially when you're right in the middle of it

And you could talk to you doctor about your anxiety. I've been on citalopram for about a year to help with hot flushes, which it has, but the relief from the anxiety has been a tremendous weight lifted as well!

If your brother lives with them as a non independent adult, have you considered that they may leave the house and its contents directly to him for security?

I have a feeling it’s not just OP’s brother who is ND here but OP and her dad too. I have ADHD and certain things are resonating with me; especially around hyper-fixation and obsessive behaviours.

If the family is neurodivergent then it’s going to be more complicated then just saying sort your shit out or mind your own business; neither side will find it easy to just comply.

For your own sanity, you need to leave it be because they will not change and deal with it. They are already at the point of no return and saving the problems until crisis point/ death.

In the absence of any diagnosis, your brother is officially an autonomous adult. Again, there is no point in stressing about things that people don't want to change. A crisis probably will unfold, but either way without any of their consent that is kicked down the road to crisis time no matter how much you stress in advance, so there's no point in flogging yourself with the stress now because it can not bring positive change.

It's also likely that your dad is also non-diagnosed ND if your brother is. Hoarding is a common manifestation of ND traits such as poor impulse control and special interests.

Tidying up for a hoarder is as useful as throwing out the bottles of an alcoholic. At best, it's useless, at worst it antagonises the situation.

You know there's a shit storm ahead. You can not change that without their genuine consent and they're not going to give it, so until then, for your own sanity detach and leave it to be their problem.

That comment was spot on. “Mindless shit” is easily dealt with by hiring a skip or employing a house clearance firm. I know, I’ve done it.

I know this will sound very simplistic but you talk a lot about feelings, so feeling responsible etc and I really empathise but feelings aren’t facts and you (and I) are creating the feelings. So we can create other feelings which are yep a shit show but me worrying doesn’t actually do anything.

And just pull back, you need to break the dependency or addiction to the drama and feeling resentful, at some point we get hooked on it all.

This! Very much agree it’s not an honour and one I wouldn’t agree to!

A few points.
You can't make people stop hoarding by going in and sorting boxes every few weeks. It needs a psychologist to sort out their issues. Unless they agree, it's best to leave it.
They aren't under any obligation to show you their wills. And, quite frankly, constantly asking people of a certain age about arrangements after their deaths isn't acceptable. I'm older and I don't want to have to discuss my demise constantly.
If your brother has a learning disability, or is otherwise vulnerable, then he would need adult social care to be involved.
In the meantime, all you can do is leave them to their lives, banjos and all.
Just to add my late husband was a hoarder. A tidy hoarder, but a hoarder nonetheless. I do have some insight into the condition.

Could I ask how you would find the elderly parents board? Thank you ☺️

Stop being a martyr. You don’t have to do anything when they’re still alive or when they’re dead. Live your life and leave them to it.

The most important thing you should be discussing with your parents is setting up POA for both.

I relate to what you've written and my mum was a similar nightmare - I had to disengage for my own health. Lots of therapy helped me with this. Best of luck you sound successful and kind - don't let them drag you down anymore.

Some v kind wise posters on here who have gone through your worries OP. It is hard to clear out a hoarder’s property- I experienced similar after a family member with serious mental health issues passed away and I was the only person to volunteer to clear the flat. It was harrowing but it also helped me come to terms with his illness.
ChatGPT helped and told me the costs of sorting out the flat plus any reasonable expenses - skip hire, man in a van etc- come out of the estate before any beneficiary is paid a penny. I claimed for travel, hotel stay, even a small wake for his distant friends who couldn’t make the funeral, all as reasonable costs.
These are tough life challenges no question, but you will cope - and do the best for your parents’ memory - when the time comes. But very kindly meant, that is really a long way off. Let go of trying to push for answers right now.

This but also they are not both likely to go at once. One will die and then you DON’T step up - let them make the funeral arrangements etc and sort it NOT you. Usually the death of one parent in this situation brings realisation that funeral/ clutter/ sorting etc is huge and takes time and effort. Don’t go to their house and don’t sort stuff. I would strongly suggest you just make it clear that he is not your responsibility (your brother) and social services need to step in.

Perhaps brother is the sole beneficiary of the will?

I think you should
stop worrying and see what happens when one of
them dies. It may prompt the other to take action

When they get ill id just phone social services and let them deal with it.

Your parents may be very worried about the future too, but "shove that into a drawer" too.
Think ahead, read through
Death and wills - Citizens Advice
at and wills - Citizens Advice www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/ share.google/4UaQbI0xUM201uoUR

If it comes to being as bad as you think OP you can -
Ask a solicitor to help.
Leave your brother to it.
It is stressful looking out for older parents. But they could live another 15 years , anything can happen. Worrying about what may or may not come to pass is just suffering twice.
I would back off, don't ask about it anymore. Don't use more energy trying to persuade anyone to do anything.
Look after yourself xx

They won’t. My experience of social services is that it’s expert in washing its hands.

I think you need to separate out the issues to find the real worry. I have similar parents and live one mile away. I see them daily because DM is disabled and it gives DF a bit of a routine for me to pop in.

The way I see it, rightly or wrongly is:

• You live 300 miles away. You're not doing the day to day. Your DPs have a son who is not coping with life. Your DF is coping by distracting himself with the latest whim. Your DM has become passive. It's coping strategies.

Do you think your brother does have ASD? Is it likely that your DF has ADHD? I recognise it in my DF more and more and it makes my earlier life make much more sense (and why I, and all my children have ND dx).

• I pressed my parents to make wills, but all I wanted was that they had one. I don't want a penny of their money, if there is any, really. I just don't want to have to deal with an intestate estate. So if they are telling you there is one, job done.

• House value is irrelevant unless they die or need care. It literally doesn't matter. In the next few years the value will change, they might need a charge against the value for care, etc. Besides, you can always look on Zoopla if you're interested and see what similar houses sell for.

• POA would be the most helpful thing practically, while they still have capacity. But if they won't do it, nothing you can do.

• If your brother is genuinely unable to live on his own/get a job, then the welfare state will kick in. He will be assigned a social worker and given some sort of accommodation/care. If not, he'll have to claim Universal Credit and he may well find himself.

• The hoarding. It isn't enough to tidy stuff into boxes. If they want your help, and you're willing to give it, you have to actually get the stuff out of the house. It's the only way. If they don't want your help and you're 300 miles away...why is it bothering you? Is it dirty or just cluttered? My DP live in a 4 bed house and there are times when I go through and help DF sort stuff out. He just doesn't have an organised mind and he's overwhelmed with caring for DM. I get a bin liner and put all the bits of scrap from 3D printing in there, along with old bits of paper, plastic containers that seemed useful... It's partly generational. DM and DF grew up poor and they were taught not to throw anything away that could be useful.

• None of the stuff will be sentimental to your DF or DM when they're dead, so it doesn't matter. You'll be able to work out what is worth keeping and what to get rid of. Let it go. It's just stuff.

I understand that you're anxious, but your post does seem to be focused on money. If you adopt the mindset that you'll get nothing and have some cleaning up to do, you'll be happier. Ultimately, that's all there is to it.