To think prisoners should be safe in prison?

[BlueJuniper94]

Is this an unreasonable belief? I know Ian Huntley committed horrific crimes and I really do sympathise with the feelings that he deserves it in light of what his victims have suffered and continue to suffer.

BUT - this shouldn't be allowed to happen in prisons. Aibu?

Everyone should be safe everywhere. Sometimes bad people do bad things.

In your previous post you referenced a debate on prison safety, suggesting you believe their is an ongoing and legitimate debate re prison safety, which indeed there is, as evidenced by this lengthy thread. I suggest you have a look at some recent stats re prison safety. Prisons in the UK are very much classed as unsafe: prisoner and staff assaults, self harm and deaths (including by suicide), and overcrowding are at record levels.

I don’t agree at all. I just feel for his victims, that he’s ended up in the news again. He murdered a woman that he knew was pregnant, after raping her. As well as 2 other people.

No I don’t have empathy for Huntley, as a Mum to 2 DDs and a CSA survivor. But I object to any praise going to the other murdering scumbag, it’s literally just one lowlife attacking another.

Of course they should be safe but unless you keep each individual prisoner locked up in isolation 24/7 there will be bad things that happen sometimes. It's the same with all services, hospitals, schools, CJS. With all the will in the world, nowhere is perfect and awful things will happen. Always have and always will. Whether or not people care about people like IH is a different question.

This s fantastic reply .. my husband is a prison officer not in this jail but a similar one !! Him getting attacked like this will have just been a moment that he’d been left unattended.. They haven’t got enough staff to be permanently watching him .. in a basic cat c prison there is 3 officers to 70 inmates .. A cat A jail will have more officers but not enough for him to be on a permanent watch . In an ideal world they would all be safe for prisoners but most of all the staff . Let’s face it Ian Huntley should suffer for the rest of his life ..

This lengthy thread does not in any way resemble a definitive debate in real terms. It’s Mumsnet.

If, after briefly pausing to consider the visceral terror and pain those children endured, and their families will forever endure, your first thought is this man must be afforded the right to live in safety then no words can be offered in debate in the face of such delusion

No, not praise. Just that in a brutal, frenzied outburst of violence, Huntley got his just desserts, and that's a good outcome.

Sorry. You think a murderer can be rehabilitated? Look the case again. We’re talking about children. I don’t care who hurt him or what was done. I will not in a million years fight their side/needs.

I question why you do.

I think it's great news that Ian Huntley, a violent murderer, has been violently murdered.

It was far from my first thought but we have to put our emotions aside, engage our logical brain and consider the facts no matter how unpalatable they may be.
Ref debating. It was you who initially referenced the term.

No need to put emotions aside at all

Sure, in theory; but also, sh*t happens, and out of everyone on planet earth, the victim here is among those about whose safety and comfort I care the least, so this particular case is not my priority in terms of compassion.

He's not dead (yet)...

Ah ok, the irritating bloke with the noisy exhaust has just driven past again. I'm fucking fuming! I'm going to waltz up the road and batter him with an iron rod. That'll learn him. Do you usually let your emotions take control of do you try to use logic to influence your behaviour?

I’m sorry- what is your point? A hypothetical situation regarding a loud exhaust resulting in ABH is relevant in what way exactly?

Please “learn’ me.

Im sure you can’t possibly be drawing parallels from a convicted paedophile real life child murderer to your odd theory it has any resemblance to someome with a loud emission system on their non existent car?

That’s how I see it. And I’ll be glad if he does dead, for the simple reason that now his victims’ families will hopefully no longer have to hear his name in the news or read about what’s happening to him in prison.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was replying to your statement: 'there is no need to put emotions aside'. There is indeed a need to put emotions aside and employ logic.
I feel like putting a pencil in my eye and banging my head off the table. Have a lovely evening!

Is he dead?

I’m not the one attempting bizarre analogies in a feeble effort to argue for the protection of a child abuser and murderer. His crimes demand that emotions are applied.

I believe he may be still clinging to life so at least you have some sort of consolation to cling to and can rest easy that some form of your sense of perverse righteous justice prevails

You want to put a pencil in your eye because a monster is hurt by another monster? It's a strange thing to get so upset about, - there are plenty of good people suffering harm in the world. Strong negative emotion about child killers, meanwhile, is pretty intense and pretty inevitable - it's why we put them in prison.

No not yet.

Prisons are fundamentally unsafe, violence is everywhere and I don't think there is any easy solution. Category A prisoners are spread across the 'dispersal estate' in a way that is supposed to reduce risk but I am not sure it does. Some people are just not safe to live amongst others.

Ian Brady was held in isolation in prison for about 15 years (on and off), to prevent him being killed, and the impact of that made him lose his mind. By which I mean - he started hearing voices, hallucinated that he was being taken outside at night and injected, developed bulimia, starting binging/purging etc and this went on and on for years until he was moved to Ashworth Hospital in the 1980s. There is no truly safe choice - isolation will drive prisoners mad. Allowing them to mix and socialise risks violence. Being unable to escape either situation will lead some to suicide.

Still in an induced coma. I imagine the doctors are waiting to see if they can properly assess the brain damage and see if the swelling will reduce. 'Alive' seems like a technicality at this point.

Huntley did unspeakable terrible terrible things. He was sentenced to life. He wasn't sentenced to being tortured, attacked, and living in terror of what lies around the next corner. The prison service are responsible for not providing protection from other prisoners. There must be a way, even if it's mainly a life in Solitary (which maybe is what he'd choose, given the present alternative.) So I agree with the feelings the OP seems to express.

They're not my stats they're MoJ stats.
The thread is titled "AIBU to think prisoners should be kept safe in prisons", its directly about prison safety, so stats that demonstrate the likelihood of being assaulted are entirely relevant.
Plus, you were the one who brought stats into it, when you said 98% of prisoners are safe. I was just correcting your error. If we're going to use them, we should be using using accurate ones.