What is reasonable to expect of retired grandparents?

[Marmalady10]

My parents live in the same town, but probably make the effort to spend time with our teens maybe twice a year. They show no effort or interest in their lives. In the past I have invited them to navity plays, sports matches and presentations, but there is no real interest there. I have always had to hire babysitters because they let me down. I have come to accept that my parents only really show up around Christmas and holidays, and only then they might take them out once for breakfast, and last time my dad went a bit extra and took them to look at new buildings being built (his interest, not theirs). It feels like they only make effort to keep up appearances and tell their friends what doting grandparents they are.
They never message the kids to see how they are or how they got on in exams or important sports events. Am I expecting too much? What is reasonable to expect of grandparents living 5 minutes away? They are both retired, mobile, and in good health. We are the ones who always have to invite them over and take them out for meals, and this is never reciprocated. They do like to socialise a lot so I get it that they have their own lives but surely some interest in your family isn’t expecting a lot? When I have brought this up with them in the past they have been completely offended that I even suggested it, and then nothing changed anyway.

Do they really tell their friends what doting grandparents they are? That would really piss me off as it's an outright lie. If they said 'we've done all that childcare stuff with you & siblings, don't want to do more' I might well be disappointed but at least it's honest. The lies would make me angry though.

Maybe they didn’t miss out. Maybe they built life as they wanted it, and they’ve continued that. They’re not that interested.

It’s not unreasonable to have hoped that it’d be different but it was unlikely, and it is unreasonable to keep expecting change when it’s not going to happen. They’ve shown you how interested they are. You can’t change that.

To be honest i would stop bothering with them.

Relationships are two way.

My mum and dad had an amazing relationship with one of my nieces from early years until adulthood. This developed because from an early age she spent alone time with them (SIL split with her dh and worked nights so niece slept at mums and dads). As niece grew into a teen she would actively want to visit her grandparents alone.

They have other dgc they love but the relationship is not as close for both sides, simply because they don’t know each other and small talk is awkward. This is because from an early age they didn’t bond as well as they only saw each other occasionally and always with the parents.

I saw the same growing up myself, my cousins who stayed close to and had sleepovers with my dgp were so close. I remember their funerals and my cousins speaking about their relationship and thinking I didn’t recognise them. That is no one’s fault, it is just r relationship for various reasons (geography, work pressures, prior) didn’t develop the same. Personally I think parents are mostly the enablers of this in early years, but it can be difficult with busy lives.

If your dc are teens now, it is likely the opportunity has been missed, this isn’t your parents “fault” it’s just how it is.

Almost identical to our position. Our DS is nearly 5 and none of the GP have ever looked after him or taken him on a day out. They don’t turn up on birthdays or anything like that at all. They see us as older parents not needing support.

Reading this thread I suspect much of it is down to the relationship they had with their own parents. When I was a child I never spent any time with GP and I knew that my parents weren’t really keen on them. They were very much in a position of self sufficiency and I think they expect the same from us.

The relationship I had with my GP was very distant because of this. I didn’t attend funerals or anything as I barely knew who they were. I suspect history will repeat itself with my DS.

It’s a shame really as they all live local, are all retired and are all financially secure so have absolutely no worries yet don’t appear at all interested in our DS.

There is one difference though and that is both sets of GP each have 1 other DGC however in both cases they are now adults. They both offered huge support to those DGC but have told us that they now feel they’ve done their bit so don’t engage with our DS in anything like the same way.

It’s ridiculous really as we don’t need anything from them. We pay for all childcare, have flexible jobs to facilitate school and are financially secure so it’s not as if we ever go cap in hand to them. They could literally have just the best bits of being GP without any of the negatives yet they choose not to.

@Marmalady10 I think you've identified the issues yourself.
You weren't brought up with grandparents so there's no model for your parents to follow there
They haven't been there for you or your grandchildren. It sounds as though they see parenting as 'job done' and their engagement thereafter is on their terms.
Their choice, but you reap as you sow. My grandchildren are the joy of my life and main motivation and I will always do whatever might be needed to support them and their parents.
That's my choice with no strings attached. I don't expect them to reciprocate if I need care later in life, the close bonds now are reward enough.
YANBU but not all parents and grandparents are made equal.

OP, why are you doing all the running?
Match their energy.
They have every right to not wish to be childcare, even though I think letting you down when they did already commit is awful.

Why are you allowing this to be all one way and for your children to witness this?

Drop the rope.

I have friends with parents like yours and they decided to match the energy and were much happier for it.

They too had zero real interest in their grandchildren and once my friends finally understood that, they accepted it.

But when their grandparents slowed down when their children were late teens and suddenly were looking for company and visits, they refused to put any pressure whatsoever on them to visit.

There was little relationship to speak of, so my friends had zero intention of guilting their busy children.
They wouldn't entertain it.

Drop that rope completely.

My grandparents never provided any childcare whatsoever, but we were very close right up to their death in my 20's.

They were so interested in me and my life, we were always connected, right to the end.

Radically adjust you effort and expectations and you will be the better for it.
If you want to run after your parents later in life, do.
But that is your choice.
Plenty of people who have parents like yours, don't.

One friend of mine whose parents were very similar and unavailable, had children who went to a university 90 minutes away from home. They decided when it looked like their children were going to settle there to up and move to a great suburb nearby as their jobs were now both WFH.
Her parents were very upset at their decision and very vocal.
My friend told them that being with their children was their priority now.
Its been absolutely brilliant for them all.
Their children adore having a home to go to for Sunday lunch, to drop into ad hoc, despite living their own busy lives.
My friend is just loving urban life.
They see her parents infrequently, but she does telephone weekly, just like they did when the children were growing up.
They have adjusted to paying for the help and services the need.

This. There are no "reasonable expectations"

100% this. My mum isn't as able to help me with childcare as her and my late dad were for my siblings - I am the youngest of a large family and had my daughter when I was 43, so my mum is now in her mid80s- but, my god, does she remember anything/everything (!) that her 8 grandchildren are doing and ask after them! My PILs are definitely not as interested/willing but they do make some effort (even when it's only on their timetable..🙄).

OP I think that you're completely within your rights to feel disappointed by their actions and attitude.

Ideally you would hope gp would be interested and involved because they want to be, not because of some veiled threat that they’ll get no help later on unless they do x,y and z now.

I do think though that it’s not really about babysitting. If you have no interest in your grandchildren and building a relationship with them. How can you then expect the same people you’ve made little to no effort with over the years to then make an effort with you when you’re elderly and struggling. I don’t think that’s tit for tat. It absolutely shouldn’t be used as a threat but I wonder what the thinking is for people like the OP’s parents who clearly aren’t interested yet will still expect the OP to put in the effort when they’re old. It just doesn’t work like that.

For me, you get the energy back you give out.

Those were pretty much my thoughts too.

When they get older and health issues start to appear they might well pop up wanting help and support. Happens all the time. A lot of elderly people think they will go on forever and that ill health and mobility issues are for others

From your post it seems you’re expecting them to go out a lot to see you? To nativities, sports etc? Mine find this very unappealing but are very happy for us to pop in for tea at their house instead - takes up just 30 mins to an hour of their time (& ours) and means a bit of conversation and has promoted a good relationship between them & the kids. One of my siblings expected the events attendance - with the exception of sports (for me) a lot of that stuff is pretty dull to be fair and I can see why some gps aren’t that keen!

My PIL are like this. Marginally more interested in their younger son’ kids (he’s my husband’s brother and clear favourite).

No eldercare. Tee hee.

I’m astounded at DGPs who live but five minutes away not wanting to see more of their DGC. I live at quite a distance from mine, but I do make the effort to see them when I can - for me, it’s much more a case of working parents and weekends being precious, so it’s a fine balance between wanting to see my DGC and not wanting to impose. I do write letters and send books and the occasional unexpected present, though. All I can say is that it’s the OP’s parents who are the losers in all this - there is a great deal of pleasure to be had in being a grandparent, and I am at a loss to understand why they don’t want to be more involved.

My DM always said she had done her bit with us, and therefore didn't feel the need to do it all again. She wanted some time for her and her new partner (my Dad died fairly young at 68).

Predictably when she got very much older, she couldn't understand why nobody wanted to look after her, and why her Grandkids didn't visit.

She was very much a give them a £10 and then sit quietly and don't disturb kind of GP.

I haven’t voted because I don’t think there’s a universally reasonable expectation here. Any expectation each of us might have will be based on our experience of how our family works.

If your expectations aren’t being met, I guess you should be asking yourself, ‘What led me to believe my parents would be more involved with my kids? Given everything I know about our family, was that a reasonable ecpectation?’

I always feel that the investment made is never wasted. Your GC are going through the same self-focussed age that we all go through, but deep down they will never forget the times you shared together.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that but you would possibly be confronting different emotions such as regret and guilt about what you didn't do, rather than feelings of longing that you're feeling now.

iowYou can never take away all the kindness you gave your DGC at the time you could give it, it's "in the bag".

My only expectation is that people fulfil what they commit to. I think it's unreasonable to agree to babysit and then cancel at the last minute for anything other than I'll health. However, they don't have to commit to doing anything. They can do as much or as little as they want.

There have been a number of times when I have needed them to help out and then they call me the night before to say they forgot they had arranged to go out with some other friends. I once had to go for a MRI scan and DH was abroad with work, so I asked my parents to babysit. On the morning they text to say they had decided to go to a friend of a friend’s birthday luncheon, and could no longer help, so I had to take the kids (who were small at the time) with me to the MRI.

Nothing is to be expected.

What is "reasonable" to expect?
Lol.
If you cannot take the hint, then what is reasonable would be to let them get on with their own bloody lives.

@Marmalady10do you think there might be some worry that if they do loads for you, living 5 mins away, it might mean an expectation that they do similar for your sister, who lives further away? Or could perhaps cause some resentment that you’re getting far more help than her?

im not looking to excuse their complete lack of interest in not even bothering to communicate with your children- i think that’s odd and really sad.

but families can be complicated and expectations can cause difficulty. There’s already been a poster on this thread who proudly mentions a grandparent doing a weekly 3 hour round trip to provide childcare, which is bonkers and way too much pressure on a grandparent. I’ve seen similar on other threads too, where posters measure a grandparent by whether they provide free childcare, and bonus points if they do crazy hours long journeys to do it. That’s equally sad to the situation you’re in. It feels like a transactional thing.

I’m just pondering on possible reasons behind some of this.

But like I say, the utter lack of interest is odd and hurtful. I think you may just need to accept they aren’t interested and as others have said, match their energy.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, OP. Cancelling when you had a hospital appointment is out of order. I would be very unwilling to offer any care/help when they become ill or less mobile since you have your own life and they have always prioritised theirs.