To hate most men?

[Carlie97]

I'm not speaking about the whole male population, of course, but they're so pig ignorant. Sexist, bullish with disgusting habits. I'm currently sat in a cafe and a man, looks to be in his 60's is doing that deep throaty sniff in and sneezed so loud, I almost choked on my fish. Then there are the men who spit in public. Earlier I endured a man constantly sniffing on the train for half an hour. Women are like this too, but men are far worse. Enduring these men is a daily occurrence.

You honestly don't know that. That is as reliable a statement as incel ideology: 'women just want your wallet' or racist ideology 'black people have lower IQ' or 'Muslims all want to rape your daughters'. Horrific, idiotic statements.

Of course there is sexism and misogyny and it needs to be tackled. But the worst way of doing this is to tell all men: you are sexist beasts and you hate us.' It's not encouraging a fair and open or helpful dialogue about tackling the issue.

I'd rather say (and believe to be true) 'Please would all decent men - and there are many of you, of all ages - stand up against misogyny. Be vocal in your distain for it. Challenge it if you see it in action in public. Mock it if your mates make sexist comments in the pub. Discuss it properly with your family. Let everyone know how pathetic and uncool you think it is. Real men aren't sexist.'

Encourage men to be proud of being decent and honourable. Show that is a manly, powerful way to live.

If you tell someone you 'know' they are a piece of shit - how likely are you to appeal to their best qualities?

Why are all the decent men NOT standing up and saying this? Have they not noticed what many men are like? Do they not read the papers?

YANBU. Beyond my own DH and two sons, I encounter very few men in day to day life that aren't awful in one respect or another.

I was running through a park yesterday, and passed a man walking towards me. He gestured to the woman running a little bit in front of me - a woman who was physically much larger than me, that's important context - and chortled "You two are like a before and after photo"

I responded to this wheezing, unkempt man, who was much larger than the woman he was referring to, with "I'm surprised you felt comfortable saying that out loud". He said "It was a compliment, you humourless bitch"

Honestly I think men have been rendered obsolete by evolution. We should just get rid of them except for a few who could be kept in captivity so that their sperm can be extracted for breeding purposes.
The world would be a much happier and productive place if it was populated entirely by women.

I'm not saying that the OP or women in general don't have legitimate beefs, just that I find it ironic that women are always banging on about mysogny, when my life experience is that hatred of the opposite sex is 1000 times more prevalent in women

@RetiredMan I have been pondering your post. You say you are retired, so will have seen and heard of things during your lifetime. I am in my 50s so not too far behind you I assume, age wise. I too went to boarding school.

I am not sure that things have changed that much over the years. Is it possible that you might have overlooked certain things that were just deemed as normal behaviour, she can't take a joke, she is so sensitive etc etc comments? I certainly know this to be the norm and especially during my school time.

It is just more recently that the sheer volume of this behaviour is being spoken about openly. If I had gone to the Headmaster to tell him that John was teasing me, I would get laughed out of his office. It is something boys did, and we were told it was alright, because that is how they showed us they liked us. It is just all sorts of wrong though, don't you agree. This is a minor example, but of course it goes way further than this. If I think back, the only male that really called anyone of them out, was my older brother who was at the same boarding school as me. Because he could see it hurt me.

My life experience (from a similar era) just seems so different from yours. Maybe that is because your experience from from a different side.

We are all collectively TRAUMATISED by men

If you're talking about your select group of friends @LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta then you have my sympathy...you seem to have had a particularly shit run of luck with quite so many extreme experiences. However, your comment reads as if you're talking about us 'all'. And if so, no, we're really not.

Don't get me wrong, i've definitely experienced misogyny from some unpleasant men and it's a problem that needs addressing. I've been beeped at by 'white van men', talked down to by a select few douchebags in my male-dominated workplace. And having your arse pinched in busy clubs in my late teens was unavoidable. Yeuchh. Plus encountered the 'smile love' arseholes once or twice.

But posts like those outlining multiple experiences of being leered at since 11, nearly being raped many times, chased by men, wanked at, groped, having groups of men shout at you...well, I simply cannot relate at all.

I absolutely sympathise but framing this experience of life around men and so many horrendous, extreme experiences as 'common', implying we're all living in fear and experiencing the same kind of journey is just simply untrue ime.

Very well said

Has anyone else noticed a huge rise in male contributors to this site?

They love coming on to tell us how we’re wrong about navigating male violence and misogyny as women. They know so much better than us women… on a women’s site… and they don’t see their own misogyny

If nearly one in three women have been subjected to physical and/or sexual violence (stats as above published by the UN) then who is committing the violence? Note this figure does not include sexual harassment which makes it even more shocking.

I had a conversation with DH a while back, asking him who the abusive men are at his place of work. His answer: none.
His place of work is very male-dominated, around 95% of employees are men. They’re all great blokes…no abusers there, no definitely not. It’s the other types of men who are abusing one in three women.

What a wonderful idea.

It's not just the filthy personal habits but the disgusting perversions. I watched a program last night about men paying for drinks that have had dirty underwear soaked in it. Women wouldn't even consider doing something like this.

Yes. They should all be banned. It should be a women only site and MN should check identity.

If we could choose your dating pool would be much bigger 😁

Yeah, this is a statistics that is well known but there doesn't seem to be much that turns the perspective on what size cohort of the male population are the abusers. I'm willing to believe that a smaller population of men wreak a lot of havoc abuse doled out to multiple women. But I still couldn't tell you what that number is.

Most men I deal with in my daily life are just fine. Most men I interact with online are hideous, but that’s somewhat self selecting.

I think the vast majority of men are probably ok, but the fact so few of them will stand up for women when it matters is very problematic.

YANAABU

Statistically unlikely murder you though. Or anyone else come to that. Unlike sons.
I just didn’t want to create another male.

If you want love, get a pet. If you want 24/7 misery, get a man.

Most men I deal with in everyday life seem just fine. But it doesn't take much to scrape the surface and see what's underneath. And ALL of them seem eager to cheat.

Sons are very statistically unlikely to murder their mother. Granted more likely than a daughter, but your statistically more likely to killed by a scented candle. You have a very wrapped sense of risk.

You must have lived a sheltered life, I envy you.

You also have internalised misogyny. You would rather disbelieve women, or think they must have brought rape and daily intimidation and disrespect on themselves. Because otherwise it's a scary thought that means you are vulnerable too.

If you refuse to believe individual women, or women collectively telling their stories, look at the statistics for the UK alone. I won't bother putting the sources, you can look them up:

-56% of women have taken safety measures like using phones as props or carrying keys as weapons in the past year

• 47% of girls aged 11-21 feel unsafe due to misogyny
• 2.2 million women/girls over 16 in England and Wales experienced domestic abuse last year. That's 7 percent of that population, more than1 in 20.
• 97% of women aged 18-24 report lifetime sexual harassment. Only 4% reported an incident to the police. Last year, 8% of women experienced sexual harassment. This rises to 23% for women aged 16-24.

-Online, 1 in 3 UK women (36%) have faced abuse, increasing to 62% for ages 18-24.

These are MILLIONS of women who are being beaten, raped, harrassed, intimidated, abused annually. They form a HUGE swathe of the female population. Do you really think it's just a few deviant men who are doing this? It's not. It's at least a large minority, and then there's another large minority of men on top of who don't do ANYthing when they witness their friends making horrible comments about women or talking about sex their wife owes them or 'joking' that they they would "do her" when a young woman walks past.

I get it, it is actually impossible, when you live in a patriarchy, to not have it distort your thinking about women and behaviour to women. But that means every decent human has the responsibility to recognise the effects of patriarchical thinking on their own views and to fight against it within themself.

That includes you. Or would you rather continue thinking that women are making it all up, because then YOU feel safe?

I dont tell them that, I mainly stay out of their way. Also it is not my fucking job to appeal to anything or anyone. Particularly the "best qualities" of men.

Men have made womanhood a life wrecking experience for me at times.

'You honestly don't know that. That is as reliable a statement as incel ideology'

I dont have to make reliable statements for you. Get off your knees and read something, talk to other women, open your eyes and look around you. Anything at all but seriously fuck off telling me what to think about men.

The world you live in where men hold other men accountable is a complete fantasy. Very few if any are doing that.

Hm... nope. ALL women have bad experiences with men. But some women loath themselves so much because society only respects men, even when pretending to respect everyone, that they still constantly hamper after men.

I was watching people at the local cafe one day. I noticed that when women placed an order the servers were bland and didn't even look at the client. When a man came up to order his stupid coffee, the demeanor changed right away, they were more attentive, more polite and serviceable. And if this is common in a coffee shop, imagine what goes on everywhere else in society.

I work with a guy, who seems pleasant, nice and respectable He seems to have a good marriage and well achieving children. A perfect marriage and family.

We were talking about the gym and he says he signed up to one so that his daughter could join, bolting on to a parents membership.

I asked him what he now does at the gym, expecting to hear him talk about which machines he goes on, or spinning class, squash etc.

No, he replied that he stands around and looks at women's arses. And he said it just like that. Like it was just a regular answer to a regular question.

Ahhhh, how original, another man hating thread.

Dont women have anything else to talk about in their lives?

If you all hate them so much, why do you think, write and obsess about them so much?

YANBU