To be bothered about this interaction with manager?

[SorcererGaheris]

I volunteer in a charity shop (it's a bookshop) and our manager is a very nice person who I get along with.

I have noticed that when she is feeling very stressed, she can sometimes speak in quite a snappish way. (Understandable, I know.) I should perhaps add that she is under a lot of pressure generally from higher management, who moan at her any time the shop is closed for a day (due to not enough volunteers being able to come in or volunteers refusing to come in on that day because there is so much uncollected stock in the basement - the waste collection company is supposed to come every week, but often goes four or five weeks without showing up.)

For about three weeks, the shop's toilet has had a leak, which has also entailed the manager having to come in early on a Sunday morning (her one full day off) and mop up the accumulated water, and put down cardboard and newspaper to try to soak up some of the water during the day.

Last week, someone finally came in to begin work on fixing the leak - we had needed to wait until someone higher in the charity gave the go-ahead for this to happen, which was why it didn't get sorted out sooner.

Throughout this whole period, we have all continued to use the toilet, as it still worked perfectly well. When I arrived for one of my shifts last week, the first thing I did was use the toilet (having had a coffee before making my way into the shop, I need to go as soon as I get in.) I noticed that work had begun on fixing the toilet, and could not see any sign of the panel on which is affixed the buttons to flush the toilet. All I could see was some pipes and metal, etc.

Not wanting to start rooting around in case I disturbed or messed up something, I used the toilet, but didn't flush, as I couldn't see the mechanism by which to do this.

I had literally just stepped out of the toilet when the manager came into the back. I thought I should explain to her the reason why I hadn't flushed. I started to explain, but no sooner had I got a few words out about using the toilet than the manager cut across me and snapped, "You can do what you like, I just want to wash my hands!"

I was startled at what seemed to me a needlessly aggressive reaction to an innocent statement. I repeated again that I had already used the toilet and due to the work having been started on it, could not figure out how to flush. She said, still in a snappy tone, "You press the button." I explained that the button wasn't visible and would she be able to show me what to do.

She went into the toilet and pulled out the panel from amongst the pipes (the panel had been put in there facing in the opposite direction, so I didn't realise that it had the buttons on the other side.)

I didn't know, at that moment, that shortly before I had arrived, the till had stopped working properly (so they could only take cash transactions) so that must have been another stress factor for her.

I do understand the effects of stress and how it impacts our behaviour. Hell, I'm not immune to it myself. So a part of me is understanding - but at the same time, it wasn't pleasant to be spoken to in such a sharp, snappy way over innocent statements. I would think that part of being a manager is to not take out your stress on your volunteers.

So, on one hand, I understand why she spoke like that, but I still feel a bit bothered by it, because it's not a nice way to be spoken to.

Wow that’s a lot of writing about one grumpy comment. Just move on!

Are you neurodiverse?

That might explain the over think.

she never gets a day off, you used a toilet that you didn't flush and you think she's the unreasonable one?
Nope.

No sorry, I wouldn't tolerate being spoken to like that by anyone. I don't think you are overthinking it at all. In my own dysfunctional way, I would probably deal with it by keeping my distance and ignoring her as much as possible from that point.

If you don’t one the way she spoke to you, it’s easy, you don’t get paid to be there, so tell her to stick the shop up her arse and walk out.

@CeciliaMars

I know, but it bothered me, and I wanted to lay out the situation exactly as it happened and give the appropriate context, so I felt I had to explain in detail.

It wasn't just a couple of grumpy comments, it was the tone - the way she snapped at me (interrupted me, in the first instance) in an outburst. No doubt brought on by stress, but I felt like my head was being bitten off for a perfectly innocent comment.

I know, shit happens, but still - it's not fair to snap at people without just cause.

@Brefugee

I don't think you've read my post properly.

She does get a day off - Sunday - as well as two half-days. For the last few weeks, she has had to pop in on Sunday mornings to mop up the water from the leak, but she's only there for the time it takes to do that - then she leaves.

I explained why I didn't flush toilet. Work had been started on repairing the leak and I couldn't find the flush mechanism. Can't exactly flush a toilet without the flush mechanism, can I?

That was what I was trying to explain to the manager when she snapped at me. That I hadn't been able to find the mechanism AND to ask if her if she would show me how to flush it.

None of these issues were my fault - I didn't deserve to be spoken to in an aggressive tone.

I'm autistic, yes.

I don't know if I'm over-thinking it as such, though. It was unfair of her to snap at me when I hadn't done anything wrong. I was trying to explain the situation and ask for help.

I understand that she's under a lot of pressure, but surely part of being a manager is not letting that stress affect/dictate how you speak to your staff?

@Rowley456

To be fair, she IS a nice person. We get along well. But it isn't the first time I've observed her to take an aggressive tone when she is feeling very stressed and under pressure (though it's the first time I've been the recipient of it.)

It's not really a day off if you have to go into work to mop up a leaking toilet...

@Kirova

Not a full day off, no, but the situation was only a temporary one.

Anyway, I think that's rather beside the point - the point is, none of these issues are my fault. I can't help it that there was a leak and that it's her responsibility, as manager, to go in for a short time on her day off to mop up the leak and prepare the environment for the the volunteers.

I'm not saying that her stress isn't justifiable. Simply that it's unfair to take it out on innocent people by snapping at them.

But it happens. Hopefully she'll apologise when she's less stressed and will try not to do it again.

I wouldn't take it personally, honestly. Sometimes people's nerves are just so stretched that something petty causes them to snap. Not nice to have your head bitten off, I appreciate, but I would just write it off as an unfortunate occurrence if I were you.

And she doesn't deserve to have to get up on her only day off - meaning she doesn't have a day off at all, because she still has to get up and come in unpaid - to mop up a leaking toilet and wrangle soggy bits of cardboard for weeks on end because somebody on significantly more money than her wouldn't authorise a repair.

She's been having a shit time for ages, is paid next to sod all, gets grief for other people not coming into work because they don't fancy it (due to other things that are equally outside her control). She's in a crappy situation and she lost patience with what she felt to be a long explanation, one which could have been shortened significantly with 'Where's the flush? I can't find it. Thank you.'.

Frankly, whilst volunteering is a great thing to do, it sounds as though you're expecting somebody on bugger all salary to act as though you're doing her a favour when it's for the benefit of the charity, not her.

Not flushing is pretty gross. And your manager isn’t having proper time off if she’s going in to sort out a toilet.

I think I’d let it slide.

A one off snappy comment under stress is unpleasant but understandable.

Someone frequently snapping every time they’re stressed isn’t ok. They need to work on that as it’s not ok to take stress out on others.

NeverDropYourMooncup

"And she doesn't deserve to have to get up on her only day off - meaning she doesn't have a day off at all, because she still has to get up and come in unpaid - to mop up a leaking toilet and wrangle soggy bits of cardboard for weeks on end because somebody on significantly more money than her wouldn't authorise a repair."

Of course she doesn't deserve that. I never said that she did. But my focus is on myself here, not here. Firstly, because I care more about things that affect me. And secondly, because in this specific interaction, I was the party that was treated unfairly.

Higher management treats her shoddily, I more than agree. But that is not the fault of the volunteers. So why should we effectively have to bear consequences of that?

"it sounds as though you're expecting somebody on bugger all salary to act as though you're doing her a favour"

I don't. I just expect her to speak to me professionally and politely.

I don't know why you think I had launched into a lengthy explanation. I had barely got more than a few words out before she interrupted me, anyway. All I was going to say was: "I've used the toilet but I couldn't figure out how to flush it. Could you help and show me?" But I wasn't able to finish that initial sentence before she cut in.

How much of this is the manager's fault, though?

I think it's irrelevant for how long she works on Sunday, she shouldn't be there at all?

There isn't a non-crude way to put this - but why would you knowingly choose to use a toilet, you know is being worked on, and where you couldn't see how to flush? You're an adult - but it's apparently the manager's job to tell you how to use a loo......

@SquishyGloopyBum

I COULDN'T flush because I was unable to find the flush mechanism. That's why I asked her if she would locate it for me.

I didn't not flush out of choice, but because there was (initially) no other option.

@HArderthan1thought

I didn't notice that the flush mechanism wasn't visible until after I'd used the toilet. And I used it because in spite of being worked on, the toilet still worked perfectly well. All the other staff were using the toilet.

And as I've said, it WAS there, just not visible, because whoever had started work on the toilet have moved it around. The manager located it for me after I managed to explain what had happened and it got flushed.

None of the circumstances are the manager's fault - but it is her fault that she spoke to me in an aggressive way when I was just trying to ask for help.

@HelpMeGetThrough

The thing is, I enjoy volunteering there. I enjoy the work. I don't volunteer because I have any interest in the charity and its cause - I have no interest at all - I simply volunteer there because it's a bookshop (and I'm a bookish person) and because I find the work fun. I volunteer there for pleasure.

I agree with you. If she is managing volunteers she should be speaking to them
with respect and appreciation. Sounds like she is struggling but that’s not an excuse for being snappy.
I would probably just keep an eye on things and if she speaks to you like that again, then have a word and say it’s making you feel uncomfortable. Could you message her? Might be easier to say what you need to say in writing?
Things will be a lot harder for her if the volunteers start leaving due to her snappiness so she may just need it pointing out that her manners have slipped a bit!

She was wrong to snap at you. She shouldn't have done it. But the gracious and compassionate thing for you to do would be to let it go. If you can't, you could stop volunteering. The one thing that I think would be actively wrong of you would be to try and escalate or complain about this - this isn't an actionable issue but doing that would add further to her significant stress.

Incidentally I can see that during a shift you may have no choice but to use this toilet, but I imagine it annoyed her a bit that you used it immediately upon arriving - could you really not have used the loo somewhere else before you get theree given you knew it was broken and leaking?!

I think its the long explanation, just say 'how do I flush the loo?'. I can't stand it when people come up to me with lengthy discussion points for a really simple question. Especially if I am in the middle of doing something. I'm not rude to them but my head is screaming 'get to the point!'

I appreciate you recognising the manager is having to deal with many things that are ultimately not in her control.

I think, however, having to answer questions like "where's the flush" would push anyone over the edge - was it really that difficult to find?! She's not the plumber and, honestly, how many different locations could it have been in.

I'd let it go.

@MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned

Oh, I do intend to let it go, it just bothers me that it happened in the first place.

And I have no intention of trying to escalate or complain about it - it's too small an issue to do that.

I imagine it annoyed her a bit that you used it immediately upon arriving

I honestly don't think that was the issue. All of the staff - including the manager - have been using the toilet all throughout the leak, as the toilet itself has been working perfectly fine. And on this particular day, the leak had in fact stopped as someone had been in to start repairing it. The problem was that they hadn't reassembled everything back into its proper position, so the button to flush the toilet wasn't visible (which I didn't notice until after I'd used it.)

I have coffee before I set out to volunteer, and it takes me an hour and a half to get there (I take the bus). By that point, the coffee has gone through me and I need to use the toilet upon arrival. It's something I always do whenever I arrive, and like I said, the entire staff, including the manager, have been continuing to use the toilet during the leak - so it never occurred to me to find a toilet elsewhere. I was just doing what everyone else was doing.