Dd(13) inappropriate messages with adult dsd

[foralliknow]

13 year old dd and young adult dsd. Dsd is lovely and I absolutely adore her but she didn’t have the best childhood and can be fairly erratic.

She goes out a lot and has several casual relationships with both men and women of varying ages. I don’t judge her for this, I only worry about her safety but she seems happy, works, has always been sensible around our dc and is an adult so not much we can do.

Dd has her phone handed in each night and occasionally checked. I wouldn’t normally read text messages between dd and dsd as I wanted to allow them some privacy and to trust dsd but messages came up tonight and scrolling through I am devastated by what they talk about. Details about things she’s done while drunk, the people she’s seeing and what she’s done with them.
A lot of this is dd prying for information and asking questions but they are not answers I want my 13 year old to know.

Dsd sometimes babysits dc and is due to next weekend but I can’t trust her and have changed plans, I have blocked dsd from dds phone and don’t want them messaging or spending time together alone.

Dh who is extremely defensive of dsd thinks I am overreacting, that it is normal for sisters to talk about these sorts of things and all that is needed is a chat with her to tone it down.

I think this could be classed as sexual abuse or harassment of a child. Being told details of sexual activity, including sex work, including intimate details of who is doing what to whom, is confusing at best. At 13, she is not equipped to handle this information in an appropriate way.

I actually think the immediate banning and blocking was the right move. You need to protect your daughter. But I would follow this up with a serious talk with your DSD about appropriate boundaries.

I am concerned that DSD sounds very vulnerable. I'm sure she presents everything as her choice and she's happy etc, but the fact that she feels the need to impress a child with extensive details of her sex life suggests that this is a front for her vulnerability and insecurity. Whether she frames it this way or not, having sex for money is objectifying and degrading, and she perhaps needs help to work her way out of this. On the other hand, if she genuinely enjoys it and thinks it's all fine, she's probably a sociopath who should be kept away from your child for that reason.

An adult is talking to a child quite explicitly, including about sex work they're involved in. It is nothing like 2 13 year old girls 'comparing notes' about what they know and I can't understand why anyone would think it appropriate.

I'd be very concerned about what has caused DSD to have such poor boundaries but your responsibility is to your child. A very firm conversation with DSD making it clear this is not to continue, careful monitoring of DDs phone (etc) and talking to DD about why all this isn't OK and you're concerned should be the bare minimum, IMO.

My dad is no prude and he’s not uptight about a lot of things, but if I told him I was having sex for money he would have a heart attack. Some odd dynamics going on in this family in general.

Yes she’s an adult and she can make her own choices but she’s also 21… she’s new to being an adult. She’s not been an adult for very long and is still venerable. Her poor boundaries are evidence of this. You need to protect your daughter and make sure she gets some boundaries, teach her why this isn’t okay. She will probably think you’re being uptight because she’s a teenager and thinks she knows everything, so break it down and really try and drill it into her that this is inappropriate. Best of luck.

I think you need to be realistic about what in person conversations your DD has with other people and how appropriate or inappropriate they are. It’s your DD directing the conversation and pushing for answers because she’s curious. Just because you found a text conversation with one person, doesn’t mean she doesn’t have loads of these all over the place.

Your DD is the person you need to be talking to.

I think this now opens the opportunity for you and/or DH to speak to his DD about her risky behaviour. Do you have a good mum/daughter relationship with her as I think talking sex would be better with a woman than her dad?

Talk about how she cannot expose a 13 year old child to this sort of conversation and behaviour and to please moderate their chats. Explain how it's completely inappropriate and that your DD looks to her as a role model.

Then talk about her she's keeping herself safe. Make sure her conceptive choices protect from pregnancy and disease (I bet she's only using the Pill and not condoms). Talk about prioritising herself and values.

You are right you cannot stop the choices she makes but by talking opening and not judgmentally will encourage her to come to you if or when she finds herself needing support.

Exactly when parents are paying for the phone too they have an absolute right to check what's going on.

So many parents are slack with disastrous results.

Perhaps if the killers of Brianna Gheys parents had checked their phones Brianna might be alive.
A whole murder planned by messaging.

I would be saying to your stepdaughter, look we can’t have adults messaging a 13 year old about sex. I can see that you were just chatting about your life but it’s a line that needs to be drawn. You’d find it so inappropriate (or should) if another 21 year old or older was messaging your sister about such explicit things. Please agree you’ll never go there again until she’s over 18.

And yes I’d also be worried that two of the sex partners are people your daughter knows. Strange setup?

By knows I didn’t mean family friends or people dd actually spends time with.

The woman is a mother of a child in dd’s school, they are not friends but could be a real issue if dd decided to tell her friends and it got out around the school.
She has never met the man either, she just knows of him and was able to search him online to see what he looked like.

Op you asked if people had any suggestions as to how to make your dsd stop her behaviour. My answer is simple. Everything you have mentioned on this thread that is giving you cause for concern about her & your dd you should in a reasonable sympathetic & diplomatic way, say it to her face.

As in, your daughter sees “Sophie” in the school corridor and knows all the explicit details about what Sophie’s mother and your stepdaughter have done together sexually?

Your stepdaughter is violating so many boundaries and taboos and it is not remotely okay. None of this is normal or healthy or acceptable in the slightest.

This isn’t okay.

Please protect your daughter. Ignore the comments saying DSD should be your priority. She is an adult. Her father can prioritise her. Your priority is your DD13.

Cutting contact between your daughter and stepdaughter is the only solution. DSD will need to deal with the fall out and consequences of her actions, just like everyone else does.

She is a risk to your child.

This gets worse with every update. The sexualised environment that your DD is being exposed to is horrendous.

I wouldn’t be assuming your stepdaughter is evil. Give her a chance by speaking to her as PP suggests. But keep her blocked for a couple of weeks in any case just to break this pattern.

21 is very young and I can imagine a situation where she didn’t realise what she was doing was wrong, maybe thought of it like talking to a friend rather than a child.

That really makes no difference at all. A 21 year old woman talking sexually explicitly to a 13 year old child is absolutely inappropriate.

Is DSD sexually drawn to much older people? What’s the reason for that do you think?

Why is she confiding in a child? Does she have solid friendships her own age?

Yeah, four kids reared, two at university, one been and now working, the last on their way, all balanced, happy, active, respectful and polite... you really must teach me about parenting some time 🙄

She may not be prostituting outside of this one man, or be trying to recruit your DD, but she also may very well be. Women recruiting other women and girls is actually common, and a popular tactic with tactic used by grooming gangs precisely because women are far less likely to be suspected of having those intentions.

Most abusers aren’t strangers, they’re people close to their victims, and trusted by them. Sisters or not, it’s not normal for a 21 year old to have these conversations with a 13 year old. Be very vigilant, and don’t be lulled into a false sense of security.

You’re right that there’s very little you can do when it comes to your stepdaughter’s life. She’s an adult, and free to make her own choices, even if they’re bad ones.

Exactly! It's as though people have never heard of Epstein and Maxwell and the tactics they used to groom vulnerable girls.

I know wtf!!!
Does your dh not care his daughter is pimping herself out? And I wouldn’t like ideas being put into my 13 year olds head, she probably really looks up to your dsd

Why is she telling your dd all these details though ? That seems concerning to me, like she’s trying to influence her. A 13 year old sibling has no need to know the details, this goes beyond normal chats imo, nothing wrong with saying oh I’m seeing someone etc but Jesus a man is paying to sleep with me, why would she tell her that?!

It’s highly likely they have already done just that. Not liking her doing this doesn’t mean it’s within their power to stop her.

Spoke to Dd properly this afternoon, she claims she knows it’s not okay and she was mostly being nosy and just wanting to know the gossip but that often she is worried about her and asks to check she is ok. Obviously a lot of pressure for a 13 year old as well as having to keep secrets to protect her, there has obviously been other in person conversations as well.

We have also messaged dsd to say we are disappointed and why, that she will no longer be babysitting or messaging dd for the time being but that we would like to see and talk to her one day while dc are at school.

Agree with the above.

The thing is, whether she's deliberately trying to recruit DD or not, OP - there's an older man in the picture who's happy to pay for sex, sees woman as objects he can purchase and he likes them young. Also he's known to DD. I'm sure he's very happy to know there's another young person in the pipeline who's legal in 3yrs. Whether DD has met him yet or not, if DSD is hanging out with him and DD is hanging out with DSD, it's likely she will.

Cross posted with you OP. I'm glad DD has an understanding that it's inappropriate. She needs keeping away from information about DSD's life because she's becoming parentifed in this situation, feeling she has to look after DSD, feeling responsible for checking DSD is ok etc. That's way too much pressure on a 13yr old and will be very stressful for her. I hope you told her that if she's worried about DSD in future she's to come tell you. I don't see any benefits in continuing a relationship between DD and DSD really.