Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

They tried isolating him and he didn't comply properly. What else do you want them to do? I don't really see how school have done anything wrong or communicated badly. You say if you'd realised that him walking out of isolation was 'such a big deal', you would have 'dealt with it'? How? It had already happened. And of course it's a big deal.

Your son is clearly being rude, defiant and disruptive at school and then refusing to comply with sanctions. Exclusion seems appropriate, especially as there are no mitigating circumstances like SEN.

Out of all you've written @FrostedOwl this stands out:

"He says he feels stupid when hes put on the spot even though teachers say hes capable"

Could it be he has been wrestling with internal turmoil and masking for a long time?
The best parenting advice I've heard is: They're not giving you a hard time, they're having a hard time."

We're so quick to punish without looking behind the behaviour. Some kids are better at regulating their emotions than other kids and some just develop a bit quicker emotionally. It sounds like your son is really having a difficult time. A break from the pressures of the class is likely a good idea. I'd want to ensure supports are in place and the slate is wiped clean when he returns.

I feel for you OP.
In your situation I would want to know what new information or interpretation came to light re the initial incident.
However, as you're now noticing, the school is entitled to form their own views about incidents, and take whatever action they deem fit really.
I would also want a 100% honest account from DS re all if this, e.g the initial incident. If DS fibs to you, and you go into defend him, you look like a tit (speaking from experience!)
I'm pro school / pro teachers, and I teach my DC to respect it. But, not all teachers are upstanding people and sometimes school systems seem harsh, but that's because they've got a difficult job, (and these days some parents think they've got more rights than the schools).
I think you'll have to take the exclusion on the chin, and use it as a 'final straw' with DS. Unless he's got some major SEN issues, he knows what he's doing. You have try to get through to him that school is good for him, whether he likes it or not, and he earns any privileges by going, and behaving when he's there.
People can be po faced about it. It's not easy to get a teenager to do things against their will.

My son used to truant. Just refused to go in.

MNers like to put parents in black and white boxes (only).

White = "oh you poor thing, your child is misunderstood and has anxiety and unrecognised needs that's why they have school refusal and you should advocate like crazy for them!"

Black = "Ooh you bad parent in terrible denial, this is all your fault and you are useless parent with an awful child and you should make them behave!"

Anyway, ignore that crap. Keep gently steering him to better decisions. Make sure to give some praise when he takes responsibility & remind him that he DOES deserve good things in life, he CAN make a good future for himself. It's all any real parent can actually do. x

Let’s go from a slightly different perspective 1. that people want to do well and please those around them. 2. That disruptive behaviour is out of the ordinary 3. That behaviour is communication.

I don’t know your son.

However, can you get his reading age tested? Or even a Speech and Language referral?

I would bet money he has a communication delay/issue that makes following multi-step verbal instructions difficult. He will have an issue with his working memory and executive function. So he can’t really organise his work because it all feels like a big scribble in his brain. So what does he do - he gives out to hide how out of control he feels.

He doesn’t do it at home because he probably never reaches ‘overloaded overwhelm’. Any ND is not the end of the story but the start of finding ways to manage to live within normal social rules.

Until you/the school focus hard on ways to manage the disregulation your son feels - the cycle will just continue.

Here are things that school could do to help keep him to help himself stay in a more regulated state:

• Think about best place to sit him (near the front/to the side/by the door)
• Key person/mentor who he checks in with each morning who he builds a solid relationship with
• Social communication group explicitly teaching him phrases to ask for help, explaining what he is feeling, reading facial expressions and body language
• Explict breakdown of what needs to be done in learning tasks 1st, 2nd, 3rd steps
• Reading intervention - check not just decoding but can he do inference?
• Strengths based interest activity eg something in school that he has a talent for that can be encouraged- is he good at football? He takes a period out his timetable to coach Years 7 PE - he has to supported to contribute to school life so he feels like he belongs

Things he won’t want to do because he’s a teenage boy but he needs to lower his ‘internal overwhelm thermometer’ (this is easier said than done (!)

• Learning to control his breathing
• A lot of physical exercise and the earlier in the day the better eg morning run before school/ swimming/ skateboarding
• No sugar breakfast - eggs and bacon
• Cod liver oil supplement (seriously I don’t really know how you would get him to take it)
• No energy drinks ever and never before school

It’s really hard when things are not going according to the usual way. I really hope that between the school, you and your son - together you can come up with a plan to move forward so that something good can come out of it. All the best.

I've never been able to understand why schools think an exclusion is a good punishment for someone who doesn't want to be in school. It happened when I was at school and there were pupils who would go out of there way to get excluded and then be full of glee when it happened. They told you it's to send a message, the message they are sending to him is carry on misbehaving and you don't have to come here at all.
The reasons for his behaviour and school refusal needs exploring. Does he struggle with the work?environment?bullying? Not getting adequate sleep?

Oh please.

OP it sounds like you’re reflecting on this and getting to a point where you understand the approach. It’s horrible for you feeling like you’ve been jumped, and it’s natural to feel a bit defensive, but sounds from what you’re saying that you’re more able to see the bigger picture now. You sound thoughtful and smart in how you’re describing the situation - it’s all about how you all work with him from now on. He’ll be feeling as shocked as you so yes, it’s about getting him to believe he can turn this around, and you also maybe setting something up more regularly with school to get more regular feedback to help you.

Do you mean he has been suspended? You say say excluded for a fixed term - how long is that?

Have you considered the fact that people are just finally realising that EVERYONE has different needs, and needs to be treated as an individual? Neurodivergence is a spectrum, we're all on it somewhere. If/when any changes need to be made to accommodate us depends on where we sit on the spectrum. It's very unhelpful to shrug it off like you're doing here.

Why is it only the extreme cases who should get help? Surely if there are small things that can be done to make people's lives better, that should happen?

And this. My lord. Who'd be a teacher these days!?

It's very unlikely to. Strongarming without support very rarely has the impact gleeful disciplinarians convince themselves it will.

Where hes struggling is separating that from feeling like hes always in trouble anyway so whats the point. That worries me more than the actual exclusion if im honest.

Is it possible he's part of - together with the school - a vicious circle? He feels he's not good enough, so when he's asked to do something or answer a question and he's not sure of himself he interprets that as being picked on. His response is to act up, a poor coping method but in the moment he feels 'big' becasue he's answered back. This gets him detentions which in turn confirm to him in his mind that he's being picked on. And on it goes, round and round.

Can you talk to him about breaking that cycle? That he's not being asked a question in class because the teacher has a sixth sense that he doesn't know the answer so wants to embarrass him and make him squirm - that it's just his turn for a question. Other students will be asked questions they don't know the answer to, that's just the luck of the draw when it's your turn.

Try to help him devise better coping strategies and build his confidence that we can't always know the answer to everything and it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's a chance to realise there is a gap in your knowledge that you can fill.

Nobody's perfect, but it isn't black and white, perfect or failure. It's OK to be somewhere in the middle.

Well maybe not but the teachers and more importantly the other kids get a break from the disruptive obnoxious behaviour and finally get a chance to actually learn something for a change

What other more "constructive" things do you think the school could have done in response to this very poor behaviour?

Sorry to hear this OP. It does all sound like it’s escalated fast - but as others have said this is what happens when you ignore the consequences of your behaviour and push at boundaries (such as walking out of isolation). The term is ‘Fuck Around, Find Out’. It’s not nice but an exclusion is not the end of the world and hopefully this can be a catalyst for your son to change - he needs to realise that in life if we act outside the boundaries or rules there are consequences, ignoring those consequences brings further consequences and so on.

Have you thought of appealing the expulsion? You can appeal it and take it to the governing board. It doesn’t always change the outcome but it can provide clarification for you. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to discuss the attendance and how they can support a little earlier than now, have they discussed a managed move? (where a local school takes them on temporarily - sometimes it’s either a wake up call or a bit of a reset). There will be the aspect of their duty to safeguard the other pupils and students- so do expect that to be brought up. It’s difficult without knowing the details of incident (I have my school governor head on). Very occasionally and in certain circumstances- exclusion can be a positive - in a very weird and wonderful way. If he’s not enjoying school, they’re not able to support him/you in a way that’s meaningful - a fresh start may be good for him and the next school be just what he needs. Exclusions aren’t normally done on a whim, they get frowned up by the Local Authority and maybe the ‘Trust’ if they’re part of an academy. How does your son feel about it?

Sorry but that’s incorrect. We’re not “all on the spectrum somewhere”: ASD is a spectrum condition, but it’s binary. You’re either ND, or NT.

Maybe not but it will be good for the teachers and other pupils and they're more important than this boy who has had several chances.

This decision is for the greater good and if the guy who caused the problem isn't part of the greater good, then who cares.

I wonder how mum will cope when he tells his boss/workmate/judge to fuck off.

My son was suspended from school from fighting in December.

I actually thanked the teachers for not trying to put in him isolation and for letting me keep him very busy at home or at my parents house. I don't think isolation is actually effective, even parents I know whose child has been in isolation many times have said its not effective. Son was suspended from school on Tuesday lunchtime and by Friday he was bored wanting to go back to school.

I don't think suspension needs to be seen as worse than isolation.

No no. I have no interest in your bleeding heart concern for 'everyone else'. The quote I was replying to was about the impact of these consequences on him, as that was what the pp was raising.

Exclusion is good for the other students

Exactly i remember the twatty kids st school saying to teachers you cant do shit to me and it was true..that was 15 plus years ago..i absolutely dread to think what its like. A generation of parents bringing up little darlings that even when they admit their behaviour is wrong they STILL rile against consequences being 'too harsh'

They would be horrified that i took a biscuit off my 3 year old today because she refused to say thank you 😱

This. I feel for you OP and it’s clear you’re not taking it lightly but if I were a parent of a well behaved child in his class I would be very grateful that the school had taken steps to improve the environment for the majority.

It’s better he’s doing this now than year eleven. You have time to turn it around.

If he is academically able, take him to the local college where he will end up going, and show him what he is on the path towards. Take him to look at a local university. Put what he is doing now into perspective: we don’t work hard because we love each lesson, we’re proving our worth to set us apart to get to the next step - to be able to choose and do the things we want when we’re older.

His teacher has the right to go to work and not be sworn at, not have her or his classroom disrupted by him refusing to leave. She or he would have been afraid when he didn’t go. It will impact how others in the class see the teacher. Your son stole learning time from others they will never get back.

He needs to begin to learn this isn’t about him; he isn’t the main character. He’s part of the school community.

Good luck - it’s really hard. I do think the best route is give what he is doing now context and a bigger goal. Let him build a plan for where he wants to be in 5/10/15 years. The future is exciting, but you only get there by putting work in now.