Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

If the sanction was isolation and in the isolation he was non compliant a fixed term exclusion will be the next step. As for swearing at the teacher and raising his voice this is not good for the teacher or the learning environment. He needs to modify his behaviour or they may escalate to a managed move.

My daughter is autistic and she physically couldn't go to school due to anxiety so I find in unhelpful it is seen as school refusal as she wasn't refusing to go she literally couldn't so we have paid for her to attend an online school which is better for her wellbeing and she is still getting an education.

I prefer to deal with known facts rather than anecdotes and generalizations. It is known that neurodivergence can cause bad or unusual behaviour. This is due to many reasons such as sensory overload, poor executive function, the stress of trying to camouflage your neurodivergence and behave in the way society expects etc. It is also known that it runs in families so neurodivergent children nearly always have at least one neurodivergent parent. Obviously there are numerous other possible reasons why people of any age might behave badly. But if a neurodivergent person is behaving badly it is likely to be because the environment is too much for them in some way but obviously it will sometimes be some other normal reason.

At the start of your post I thought you were joking. I don't disagree that an average sized 14yo boy shouting at an average sized female teacher would be intimidating and maybe intentionally so.

But punitive responses tend not to work, especially for kids. He's already disaffected and disengaged. Humiliation will only make that worse.

His mum's job is to make clear to him that his behaviour was aggressive and frightening, and that's completely unacceptable, especially for a boy who'll be a grown man soon. But also to find out why he behaved in such an aggressive and idiotic way. Addressing the root cause is the only way to guarantee it won't keep happening.

My DB was ten times worse at 14 - v aggressive, verbally and physically, including during his occasional appearances at school, and including towards female staff. At home he was being severely physically (and verbally, and emotionally) abused by our alcoholic dad.

OP son might not be dealing with the same challenges, but he says he feels "stupid" at school. Imagine if all this arises from, I don't know, undiagnosed dyslexia or hearing difficulties. 14 year olds are still kids, and still learning how to manage their emotions and behaviour. Give him a chance to get on the right path again.

Not in my experience as a TA who worked with SEN kids.. nor as a mother to two with AuDHD..

My daughter stayed in mainstream, and several times I had to be "that mom" and go after the school, and more recently her college, for disability discrimination and treating behaviours relating to her AuDHD as bad behaviour. Actions in direct contravention of their own policies and the law. Not that she was ever swearing at teachers mind you.

I just wanted to say that I think you're doing great @FrostedOwl . It's a difficult situation and adolescence is such a tricky time, but you will get through it and things will work out in the end. Trust yourself and try not to beat yourself up, you sound like a great mum.

At 14 he's perfectly able to know better.

Boys need discipline. Not permanent but every now and then. They need a role model. Someone to follow.

Otherwise it's Thick Tok and gang violence that they look up to... And replicate. That lovely Andrew tate bloke/soon to be trialed misogynist.

Then, they need taking down a lot of pegs.

Schools are sick of dealing with this rubbish. Parental responsibilities have suddenly become their responsibility in the eyes of feckless parents whose kids are still in nappies at primary. By secondary we move to threat, swearing, disrespect.

Every scumbags parent is a doctor or Ed psych these days able to diagnose or explain unpleasantness via SEN. Nine times out of ten they are just as bad as the kid, need a job and to stop using fecklessness and menace as a means to get what they want.

I agree with you!.... but very many children with SEND and their families try to use it as an excuse for poor behaviour rather than choosing to misbehave for other reasons... boredom, trying to look good in from of peers, knowing that their parents will support them against the school....

You do know that where there is SEN like adhd and dyspraxia, that they also come with a heavy dose of neurological delays in social and emotional maturity, right?

And that those kids are operating on roughly a 25% delay to their peers.. so while they might be 14 (in this example) in birth years, their development has them at all bout only 10-ish on a good day.

When they do something wrong you have to ask yourself, how would I deal with this behaviour in a yr 5 or 6 student? And what would cause a student that age to respond like this.

The discipline response and discussion has to be appropriate to their development or you're just wasting your breath and not fixing anything

I agree. Well said.

Why is this the school's responsibility and not the parents??? It's the parents who should instill discipline, awareness or right and wrong.

Truth is, parents, bad parents, can't be bothered. Or they don't know it themselves and don't care. Easier to was their hands of a horrid child and blame others. Laziness.

Another generalization. I’m sorry but I don’t see how you can tell whether children or their parents are giving genuine explanations or excuses - unless of course you are their SENCO. Also, your anecdotal experience is not necessarily representative of the world at large.

@Diamond7272 I agree with one thing you said: boys need a role model. They need to be able to imagine masculinity - and themselves - as kind, brave, hardworking, etc, to be able to behave in those ways. Which is why I think sticking the "scumbags" in the "stocks" isn't going to help.

And believe me, that sort of treatment only made my brother worse. He was more than a match for an unarmed police officer or two in his twenties, v scary man. What changed him was someone seeing who he could be, and telling him that's what they expected from him: high expectations, and lots of support.

All opinions are based on generisations and experience! Virtually all posts on this site are exactly that, OR opinions based on one child, which is much worse.

I'm fine calling them scumbags. Stocks is metaphorical, though satisfying... I'm sure many people who come across angry teenagers think it.

What changed your brother 1st hand should have been your parents. The 1:1 element you later mentioned costs so much money these days. Schools, society in general hasn't got it. Fir every scumbag needing appeasing or 1:1, there is no longer the money to help 10 children who care for sick or disabled parents... Children who haven't had a break in years, children who deserve a break and taxpayers money spending on them.

I'm sorry, but we are too soft. The few are sucking the resources and life chances of too many. They made their bed and we should be less accommodating and let them lye in it.

That's my opinion. When your council is broke and there's no money for teaching assistants because X million are being spent on PRUs etc, I think the silent majority of people are just sick of plain bad parenting.

@Diamond7272 again, I agree with some of what you said. My parents should definitely have stepped up. But they were the reason for the problem. My brother was one of the kids who needed a break, from getting beaten up, from trying to look after 3 younger siblings while he was just a child himself.

So how do you break the cycle, when the parents of these "scumbags" are causing the problems? Not by telling them they're scum and always will be.

The 1:1 in his case didn't cost society anything. It was the woman he went on to marry. And once she'd got him started on a better path, then a boss at work gave him a chance and the same really high expectations, and lots of support.

Well done for having the insight that your parents were the reason for your brothers problems.

You are rare in admitting it and not blaming schools/anyone else/the tooth fairy.

He's your brother. You wanted him to access help. I get it. But, as a stranger I resent the resources being put into boys like this when so many other good children miss out in consequence.

I think a PRU place costs £50,000 or more per year. Children with caring responsibilities get nothing, not a penny. No one watches over them and their mental health.

This original post was all about the poster being upset, outraged at how a school had suspended her thuggish son. I'm outraged so much money will undoubtedly be wasted on him in the future if his behaviour escalates. I'm outraged the parent doesn't realise the buck should start and stop with her.

@Diamond7272 ok so, my brother was one of the kids with caring responsibilities, who no one was looking out for. His behaviour was a symptom of the mental health issues arising from his caring responsibilities and experiences of abuse.

And OP son is not a thug. If OP can get to the root of the problem, rather than write him off as a scumbag/ thug, she'll save society £0000s that my brother cost in policing, vandalism, NHS costs. All because people saw him as a thug, Rather than as an abused, vulnerable child with severe mental health issues as a result of his home environment.

It's possible to talk about other things than directly about the OP you know, sometimes replies are directly to another poster about a point they've made. You stated 'SEN' is not the cause of swearing at a teacher and are 'never' a reason for it. If you were speaking generally about SEN en masse, it's amazing to me that you think that, given what you must know about additional needs so I was correcting that egregious error.

If you were talking about OP's son specifically it's also surprising to me that you can make such sweeping dismissive statements considering you actually know a little more than zero about his situation. If you were as sneering and judgemental about any children under your care as an alleged SENDCo then you failed them.

Best of luck with this. I haven’t rtft, if you can afford psychology assessment I would book one.
It could have been handled better by the school.

How? What should the school have done differently?

My DM taught in a difficult comprehensive in the 90s and 00s and said that the best way to get troublesome kids to attend school was to exclude them. They were truant all the time until they were excluded then they’d hang around at the school gates trying to get in all day!

OP the school refusal will be linked, he’s disengaged and doesn’t know how to get off the treadmill he’s currently on. He doesn’t connect with the teachers, probably in with a bad crowd who encourage poor behaviour (or he feels he has to present in a certain way) and probably not achieving. He’ll also have his card marks by teachers, I’m afraid to say, so they’ll expect the worst of him because that’s what they’ve seen so far. Try and use this exclusion period to dig into what he’s finding so challenging, but it may be that you need to think about some kind of fresh start, or at least try and encourage a change in friends etc.

Honestly, the ablism in the last couple of pages is absolutely disgusting.
So far we've had
SEN kids are thugs, that shitty parenting is responsible for their behaviour, and that they should be punished and written off for swearing during a meltdown,

Any more ableist tropes people want to throw out while we're here?

Quite frankly anyone claiming that SEN doesn't cause swearing and is never a reason for doing it, doesn't have a scooby about SEN issues like Autism/ADHD and shouldn't be within a mile of having any responsibility or care of disabled students.

A 14 year old who has no respect for authority, thinks it's ok to swear at and defy his teachers, is on his parents!

You say you are supportive of the school,but i suggest you re-read your Op which is positively DRIPPING with ctiticism . Do you really think this escapes your son?

Omg the OPs son has, NOT been diagnosed with SEN. She just wishes he has so that she can at least try to justify him intimidating teachers, other children and all around him.

If there's no SEN diagnosis, the only person to blame is the mother and father. But they don't want to hear it. Criticise them???? They will kick off (to the school).

SEN does not justify outbursts. SEN children do not all swear at teachers, only a VERY small minority. Again, SEN used as justification to be a thug.