Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

@Diamond7272 can't quite believe you think adults should pay more tax for the damage they did as (disturbed, damaged) children tbh!

Out of interest, do you think the police officer who fractured my brother's skull should pay the NHS bill, or is my brother liable for that, and the police officer's time, as well? What about the doctors who repeatedly stitched him up as a kid - ages 7, 8, 9 - the doctors and teachers who repeatedly saw him with horrendous injuries without making a safeguarding referral. Should my brother be paying back the cost it took to fix those injuries? Paying more tax because he said "fuck off" to the teacher who called him a "dirty [ethnic slur I won't type out]" in front of his whole class?

I could just as easily imagine someone suggesting my brother could sue these people for negligence tbh. Which to be clear he never would. And he's more than repaid any "debt" to a society that failed him abjectly, with the work he does and life he leads now.

You're failing to see the social drivers of individual behaviour. So you'll be really hard on the "scumbags", but you'll be dealing with them forever because you're not interested in addressing why they behave the way they do.

We know he isnt.

As far as the OP's son, she's doing the right thing, which is acknowledging his behaviour isn't ok, supporting the school in his discipline from this point onwards, but also looking after her sons needs, and plans on asking the school is there is any support he can access via them.

Ignoring it and punishing him without trying to find the cause and resolve it will not fix the problem.

Why are you so hell bent in writing him off? Would you rather nothing was done to stop his current track and no attempt made to put him back on the right one?

Oh god, another sob story.. "the police officer who fractures my brothers skull"...

Poor police officer to have to go that far for self defence.

Or are you another person who blames, schools, the police, anyone, for your brother clearly being out of control.

Yes, adults should pay back damage they do to other people's property as teens. Why should I via my insurance premium rising??? If they were 18 they'd be done for criminal damage, why is a 17yr, 11 month old any different?

You need to face someone destroying your property or threatening you. A teenage boy out of control. Or one needs to threaten your wife, daughter, grandmother whilst they are doing their job in a classroom. See how you like it.

Ah, you're one of those. No point continuing to talk to someone who froths along this vein.

Yep I'm 'one of those'.

A net tax paying contributor to society.

Not a taker with endless sob stories.

First of all, poor you. It’s really hard in such situations as a good parent as you’re both angry with your child, a bit ashamed of them and guilty wondering where you’ve gone wrong - even though, in many cases you haven’t!

From my observations, this kind of thing is not commonly seen in kids from certain ethnic / national groups, particularly those who are immigrants and have the work hard or you won’t eat’ type of understanding embedded over the years and generations.

You support the school absolutely demonstrating that his misdeeds are completely unacceptable to you too and shocking. You tell him that life isn’t fair and wont adapt to his preferences or behaviour. He fits in with the rules or he fails.

Is it worth treating him a little more like an adult? Gather together all the info you have on your income, tax, household expenses , all bills. Sit him down. Explain what it costs to live. Look up basic benefits available to young people. Look up average earnings for aspirational professions - medicine, law, engineering, whatever he’s interested in. Likewise for trades.

Ask him how he’s thinking he’ll live in four years time. You won’t be supporting him. Explain that all jobs and uni or college admissions have preconditions/ barriers to entry. Will he be able to show that he has qualifications or demonstrable commitment to time keeping, attendance and good attitude? He’s a clever boy - what’s his plan? The clock is ticking. You’re asking because you’d rather have a happy adult child than one who is unemployed, homeless, poor or in prison.

Tough love.

From his perspective he feels put on the spot.

From the female teachers point of view, she's been verbally harrassed at her workplace.

I think he needs to consider her point of view of the incident, like really feel it, and accept and consider why his behaviour wasn't acceptable (frightening, intimidating, an abusive reaction) rather than just why he thinks its excused.

The patterns the school may be talking about may be linked to his interactions/respect issues with other females. Extrapolating, he can't react that way if a wife makes him feel stupid for doing the laundry wrong.

He needs to learn from this, and like properly be supported to learn and understand the problems with his reactions.

I'm not judging btw, any more than I would judge children having tantrums, it's a learning curve, which is why he needs to learn how treflect and to rectify his mistakes and not stew on how he feels wronged and misunderstood (not easy for teens 🤣)

You didn't say mainstream, you just said kids with ehcs.

And my daughter wasn't "extreme", not that it's relevant. She never had a behaviour outburst, though plenty of other kids did. And the reason was the frustration caused by their speech and language disabilities.

To get into this particular school you have to be a pushy parent. Many parents went to tribunal. It caters for children who are able enough in many respects- my daughter has a full time job and lives with her boyfriend now. Several classmates went to uni.

If she hadn't gone to that school, she would have been in mainstream, no doubt having outbursts and upsetting the lessons for others.

Fact is, many parents don't understand additional needs and don't know what they are looking for, where to go. They don't have the money for specialist assessments when school assures you everything is fine - we went from school refusing to apply for a then Statement to a fully funded place at this specialist school, to the absolute astonishment of the head.

Many children have additional needs which are not being addressed. Then they get into situations where everything spirals out of control.

SEN is absolutely worth considering here imo, alongside things like bullying, home life, mental health issues and yes, loutish behaviour.

A Primary school teacher spends up to 35 hours a week engaging with a child , that s probably more hours than the parent does! It is not difficult to discern which behaviour is caused by their condition and which is not.

You really think so?

When my daughter was assessed for adhd, the therapist gave forms to both the class teacher and TA to complete. The class teacher response was nothing like the TA's, and she wouldn't have been diagnosed if we had relied on the teacher. My daughter was masking like mad and, while this fooled the teacher, it didn't fool the TA.

Later on she was diagnosed with autism and we gave the paperwork to the school, only for her year 6 teacher to tell me he didn't think she was autistic.

Head refused to apply for a then Statement for her. Said she was "fine". She got the Statement, got a place at a specialist independent school and we didn't even have to go to tribunal.

So, imo, teachers are not to be relied upon. It's up to concerned parents to work out what's going on and what their children need. Obviously many parents can't/don't do this and the end result is disaster in secondary school like this.

@Diamond7272 it wasn't a sob story at all. He and I both agree he had it coming. The point was just that you can't possibly quantify the debt he has to society, or society has to him. The rest of my post makes that clear.

I think individual behaviour is influenced by it's social context. The police officer isn't too blame, in isolation, but nor is my brother, in isolation.

And do you honestly think, with a brother and a dad like the ones I have, I've never been assaulted by an angry man, or a teenage boy out of control?

Really? I have completed dozens of these forms and whilst I may ask the TA for input, they have never been asked to fill in a second form?

Tbf they did this because my daughter was going under the radar - she wasn't that badly behaved but her ed psych assessment had raised the possibility of adhd. The psychiatrist we used was at CANHS, where she was already known, and they knew she presented well but was masking like mad. So they came up with the idea of giving the form to the teacher and the TA. I do think most teachers will "get" most kids btw, but there will be some that fall through the gaps. Two other girls in my daughter's class were later diagnosed with autism - primary teachers didn't spot that either. Girls are so good at masking. Btw this was at an "outstanding" school which was huge and growing, with loads of specialist units, promotion opportunities etc so mo it attracted a certain type of young, overly confident teacher who thought they knew best. Maybe more experienced teachers would do better.

And if my nephew had had a penny for every poorly parented, disruptive, ill mannered, and badly behaved child who apparently has ADHD/SEN or one of the other sets of "I'm special" initials to hide behind he'd be the richest teacher in England...

Sounds to me like you are doing your best with him and I can’t see any reason to criticise you

It isn’t a case of either/or. My DD1 gets dysregulated and can then end up behaving badly. But until year 11, she never exhibited bad behaviour at school, she masked during the day and imploded once she came home. (She was violent towards me when she was younger.)

But her last year was very difficult. She was badly bullied by another girl with SEND (the OP’s DS’s behaviour sounds similar to hers actually) and she also developed epilepsy. So she did swear at teachers occasionally. (Mostly she swore at her bully and curiously she wasn’t punished for this.)

She wasn’t in class by then, as she couldn’t cope with that, she was in the school’s Learning Support Unit. This sadly didn’t work out well for her, because her bully was often there too.

So yes, she was badly behaved during that year, but mostly she was overwhelmed. She’s now doing so much better now, at a specialist college, after her EHCP had finally been approved.

I don’t think the PP said she was a teacher. I mentioned SENCO (as an example).

i don’t think it always easy to know whether a particular behaviour is due to ND or is some other reason. Just as an example a meltdown and a tantrum can look the same.

i think teachers are in a very difficult position. They have 30 kids to control and a thing to teach. They hopefully know which kids are ND but they have very little training in ND. And understanding one ND person’s needs means that is all you know because each person is so different . And yet on the other hand, ND kids are unlikely to reach their potential unless their needs are met.

Anyone who has watched the inbetweeners and Jay say "special friend"... Will get what I'm alluding to.

Oooh "special"...

Nope, your kid isn't special and hasn't got SEN. They are just rude, poorly parented intimidating thugs.. It's worked for mummy and daddy with the council and DSS - so what has the kid got to lose at school???

"Special...."

As the poster here says, if teachers had just 10p for every child a useless parent labels as 'special', they could retire with Richard Branson to that island of his in the Caribbean :)

I suspect the OP has stopped reading by now but if you do see this OP, Barnardos and Action for Children have some good family support schemes that can work with you and your son to try to address his issues at school. If you give your local Barnardos office a ring they’ll point you in the right direction.

I worked in a secondary school. If I had a tenner for every time a parent started a sentence with “I know he/she is no angel” when defending their child’s appalling behaviour I would be a rich woman. Why should every other child have their learning disrupted.