Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

him swearing at a teacher and refusing to leave a classroom when told. He did eventually leave but only after being told twice and raising his voice

So he's been abusive aggressive and disruptive? It's hugely harmful to the education of his peers.

I hope you are ensuring you make this clear to him at home

Teacher here.

The criminal age of responsibility in England is 10.

Swearing at a teacher and refusing to follow instructions is abuse and intimidation. It's not disproportionate to suspend. Outside of a school building, for example in the street, the cops would consider it a chargeable offence.

This doesn't sound like a lively child who accidentally let a cuss word slip out. It sounds like a confrontation. The message the school are trying to send is that they won't tolerate risks to their staff and other pupils.

On the other hand, this shouldn't be about blame. You should also be supported. How are they supporting your child to tackle their EBSA? How are they supporting them to work through any issues around anger? How are they supporting their own staff to diffuse rather than escalate situations? Put bluntly, if I'm confronted by a narky 14 y/o, I can talk them down in about 60 seconds by finding ways to make them feel safe. I work in a very deprived area with a lot of very angry white working class lads.

Maybe your child needs a fresh start. Would the you / the school consider a managed move?

It is all connected, but not in the way they think. Some kids just really hate school. Sorry you're going through it. I guess you have a couple of options:

• Stay put and let the school follow its processes and preferred behaviour management if you feel that's the right thing for your son.
• Stay put and push back a bit because you feel it's the right thing to do.
• Leave but remember this comes with its own problems.

Oh WOW. This is incredibly serious. A major parental intervention is needed by you and his other parent. This is a massive wake up call. Clearly your image of him is way off centre as he’s been playing merry hell at school. What are you going to do?

School have come down hard because he didn't comply with the consequence that was put in place.

They gave him a chance with internal isolation BUT he gave attitude, guessing wouldnt follow instructions so none compliant and walked out of a lesson.

He hasn't towed the line and taken original consequences seriously so now they have upped them.

I've been where you are and funnily enough dc was same age. I made dc write an apology letter to the teacher, I made him deliver it in person (I arranged with the school to bring dc in and they checked it was ok with the teacher). He apologised in the principals office to the teacher.

I talked him through accountability and taking responsibility for our actions and when we are wrong.

While he was suspended I made him clean, plan meals, go shopping, chores for grandparents and of course lessons with mum.

School refusal got all TV, electronics, phone removed until he had completed a solid week at school.

I found a hobby really helped. He joined explorer scouts and took up a sport after much nagging.

Would a school really exclude for a single incident of swearing at a teacher

At my school swearing at a teacher and then refusing to follow instruction would be deemed a very serious offence. If he’s embarrassed about the punishment hopefully it means he won’t do it again.

I worked in Pupil referral unit, most,not all were there on due to a permanent exclusion, some inthe middle of a managed move, some due to medical needs.
My neighbours child was playing up in school and I was asked to"have a word". I emphasised that if he didn't get his act together and was permanently excluded he would end up at the PRU which was quite a tough environment at the time, not somewhere you would choose to go.
I also emphasised loosing the friends from the original school and often disrupting the subjects being studied.
Even if the school just wants a managed move, you don't get a choice of where to go, it's at whichever school has a place and they have come to the top of the list. Permanent exclusion same but will take much longer to get a new school.
IMO it's much easier and less disruptive to put you head down with mouth shut and behave. Yes I have had 4 kids, so know the ups and downs.
Teachers are not all wonderful etc etc but being sworn at and kids not following instructions just makes other kids who want to learn loose out.
Additionally, you need maths and English grade 4 and above to get on most courses at college/apprenticeship or you have to continue with them indefinitely at college so need to try to get them whilst still at school.

@5gymbabe It very much depends on the school, but this isn't an isolated incident.

On the one hand, the OP has said that her son is not out of control; on the other hand, he is 'non compliant', has sworn at a teacher, has walked out of class, avoided the isolation which was supposed to be his punishment - and that the school says that a 'pattern' has been building up.

Im reading everything and taking it in even if i dont agree with all of it. I think some people are reading things into what ive said that arent there. Im not minimising what he did. Ive said more than once its not ok and he knows that. He lost his phone again after the meeting today and wont be getting it back any time soon. Hes also not sitting at home gaming during the exclusion. Ive already made it clear its school work, chores and boredom. Im not trying to make this consequence meaningless.

I do accept that walking out of isolation was a big deal. I get that more now than i did at 3pm when i walked out of that meeting feeling like id been hit by a bus. What im struggling with is the lack of communication. If id been told at the time i could have reinforced it immediately rather than finding out after the decision was already made. That matters to me.

Re consequences at home, yes there were some after the initial incident. Maybe not hard labour for six months but there were consequences. Im not laughing it off or saying boys will be boys. Some of the assumptions about my parenting are a bit much.

I am going to ask about SEN and support at the reintegration meeting because clearly something isnt right even if his grades are ok. Hes not some cartoon villain who just wants to wreck lessons for fun. He says he feels stupid when hes put on the spot even though teachers say hes capable. Maybe thats excuses, maybe not, but im not just ignoring it.

Im backing the school in front of him. Ive told him straight that this is on him and its serious. That doesnt mean i cant question privately whether things could have been handled better. Im allowed to do that surely.

Anyway im not panicking about permanent exclusion tomorrow morning. I was upset and needed a sense check. Some of the replies have helped, some havent. I can live with that.

I'm just glad that some schools are starting to show some balls about unacceptable behaviour. Well done them!

Has your son apologised to the teacher? Have you?

With respect OP, you say you'd have dealt with it if you knew ot would lead to exclusion, so why didn't you deal with it before? When you know he often truants, has a bad attitude and disrupts the class? You are doing him no favours letting him be above the basic expectations when it is impacting on others but not you and him.

@5gymbabe it all depends on the schools behaviour policy. A school with 'zero tolerance' to swearing etc and this type of incident would escalate to suspension very quickly (hence why I asked how many days because each 'type' of incident normally has a set number of days attached to it) The school has said that the incident was more serious, basically means that they've taken statements and it wasn't just one swear words, it was probably a whole string of swear words and that thing teenagers do where they throw themselves around a bit.
Do the suspension
Attend the reintegration meeting
Ask about a managed move if you feel he'd benefit from a fresh start
Ask what they can put in place to support the other issues (there is an EBSA 'toolkit' they should be implementing)
Get a support plan in writing
Explain to him (again) that not doing as directed isn't going to work for him
Ask about anger management/do they have a counsellor so that he can descalate for himself without it getting to swearing etc
Can they give him a trusted adult
Can they provide a safe space and a pass
Lots of things they can do, work with them

There is a HUGE difference between truancy and school refusal FFS

I have a question for you op. You say you feel this was escalated too fast. Do you think if they had just done another internal exclusion for walking out of the first exclusion he would've learnt his lesson? What prompted him to refuse to leave the lesson, swear at the teacher and walk out of his exclusion? All of that makes him sound quite angry and not able to reflect on what's going wrong for him.....this is not adult at you btw.....but what is his perspective? Does he accept any of it was wrong or does he feel wronged? Have you told him he was in the wrong?

I've been a teacher for a long time and some teens feel so strongly that their punishment is unjust when it really was. I've had many parental complaints for things like this. "I got kicked out for asking for a pen" type scenario where actually the culprit needed the pen because they'd thrown theirs at their mate after snapping it and spreading all over another mates work, then when told off doing that the teen says something like "ffs what's your problem, pmt?" Cue much laughter from said mates and still no work being done....on repeat. Teenager then goes home and moans to parents that I'm a bitch and they were trying to do their work and the parents believe them.

Did you miss the part where he walked out of isolation and refused to go back in?

Sounds like the job from hell
Huge respect to you

He has written an apology letter to the teacher. I havent apologised personally because i havent spoken to her since the meeting but ive said id support whatever the school think is appropriate including him apologising in person if shes willing. Im not defending what he said or how he behaved.

To the point about why didnt i deal with it earlier, im not sure what people think ive been doing. Ive had meetings. Ive chased attendance. Ive taken his phone more times than i can count. I cant physically drag a 14 year old out of bed and into school and once hes through the gate im not there. I dont think its fair to say im letting him be above basic expectations. If that were true we wouldnt be here.

Do i think another isolation would have worked. Honestly no, probably not. Im not saying that now just to agree, i genuinely dont think it would. At the time i was still in shock mode. Now with a bit of distance i can see why they escalated it. I still think the communication was poor but i can hold both things at once.

His perspective is that he felt picked on in that lesson and embarrassed in front of everyone. That doesnt make swearing ok and ive told him that clearly. He does accept that swearing at the teacher and refusing to leave was wrong. Where hes struggling is separating that from feeling like hes always in trouble anyway so whats the point. That worries me more than the actual exclusion if im honest.

Im not sitting here believing a fairy tale version of events. I know teens lie and exaggerate and twist things. Ive told him straight that even if he felt wronged, his response made everything worse. This isnt me versus the school. Im just trying to get him through the next few years without it all going completely off the rails.

Surely school refusal is a refusal to go and parents are aware and can’t get them in. Truancy is when they skip off to school and parents think that’s where they are, and they go to the park instead.

I think it’s fair enough really OP. I don’t know what difference it would have made you being told immediately that he walked out of isolation because the bottom line is that without a time machine you couldn’t have prevented it and it still would have been an exclusion.

One of my step sons went through a tricky phase . When he claimed punishments were unjust we I
Used to ask him "how would your teacher describe what happened?"
.he usually squirmed a bit then admitted the real version of events

We also made it clear that he could ruin his own education but he doesn't get to ruin other people's education.
.

I struggle to understand why exclusion from school is effective because , like in this case, he doesn’t want to be in school anyway. So I can’t see why it would work as an effective punishment. All it does is cause a load of negative feelings on all side and reinforce the poor self esteem of the child who has been excluded. Surely a better punishment would be a term at a boarding school or similar.
I suspect like in this case aswell it leads to relationship breakdown between the school and the parents too which doesn’t help.

School governor here - I’ve sat on a few PEX panels.

Any PEX needs to be ratified by the governing board. Who will need to uphold that the decision was lawful, reasonable and procedurally fair.

Pop this in to chat GPT - it gives a surprisingly good summary to help you decide whether you think the school has followed fairness and process principles. Permanent Exclusion Checklist – Three Tests

not withstanding the fact that you do seem to be minimizing his behaviour somewhat, on face value it does seem disproportionate to me. I’ve overturned the schools decision to exclude at a PEX panel before even when the behaviour has been much worse/recidivist.

You need to address this mindset "He says he feels stupid when he's put on the spot even though teachers say he's capable"

They are all there to learn. Everyone feels a bit shit when they don't know something but not knowing something doesn't make you stupid, it is just something you don't know yet. It might also be that he isn't paying attention so the teachers are saying he should know the answer when called upon. This might be about memory recall too.

My children's school was incredibly strict on behaviour and we chose that school because I wanted my children to be able to learn and for teachers to be able to teach (lots of teacher friends) and not spend half their time managing behaviour. Him refusing to leave the classroom undermines the teacher and then can set off a sheep like reaction with others pushing their luck. It creates a shit environment for the students and the teacher. Maybe relate this to your job and how it would impact you. Year 9 is when they are covering GCSE stuff too so lessons are important.

The positive out of his exclusion is he feels bad about it. Talk to him about moving forward, his new attitude and support him.

I mean this in the nicest way but he is 14 so he is not a small boy, and him shouting and refusing to leave a classroom could have intimidated and scared the other teenagers and the teacher. As a parent I wouldn't want my child to witness that. I would ask that my child not be in any classes with a teen like that.

Are you able to get him an appointment with the GP? Get him officially diagnosed if you believe he could be SEN and maybe so therapy or medication? I have a suspicion that my daughter might have ADHD so I've started to follow some support groups on Facebook and they are really helpful as well.