Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

Trust the experienced adults to do their jobs properly. They have taught hundreds of children. If they say they are doing this for his benefit, that’s their motivation. This is a good thing. You have to look at the bigger picture, which is that there is a teacher retention crisis, if they don’t quite rightly deal firmly with swearing and refusing to leave classrooms this behaviour becomes normalised and the teachers will just quit, there are tons of secondary school jobs out there.
your job as a parent here is to back up the school and not question their response. Especially not in front of your child. Unless you don’t want him to have any teachers teaching him.

Sounds overly harsh to me. Yes he shouldnt have done it, yes he should have a sig punishment at school, but hes 14, his hormones are raging, something more constructive could be done.

He was verbally aggressive to a teacher and was given isolation. That was his opportunity to step up and show he could behave appropriately and he didn't. Therefore the school have escalated his consequences to suspension. The positive thing here is that it's for a fixed time. The school haven't handled it badly. Your son was lucky they gave him a chance through isolation which he blew.
You need to deal with this pattern of poor choices before it gets worse

If he swore at a member of staff in the bank / the gym / Tesco I'd expect him to be put out and not allowed back.

There are signs in all of these places saying "Our staff wont tolerate abuse"

Teachers shouldn't have to tolerate this abuse. The school are right to exclude him. You should be making him apologise via letter or email to the teacher.

He did have a punishment at school. Isolation. He decided to walk out of it.

I don't think he has left them with much choice.

I completely disagree with this. There is a certain level of herd mentality in schools, especially with teenagers. A zero tolerance for swearing and disrespect is the only way to teach children how to behave. Otherwise they will get a very brutal life lesson in their first week at work when they are fired for doing the equivalent towards their boss

Exactly. Actions have consequences. Life lesson taught.

He’s had a series of consequences already (previous detentions and an isolation) that haven’t made a difference to his behaviour. I would be confident in saying that the swearing at the teacher and refusing to leave will have been the final straw of a whole load of bad behaviour in that lesson alone, let alone the ones before. He got the ‘kinder’, ‘working with you’ consequence - the internal suspension - and he blew it. Now he gets the escalated consequence. It’s good that he’s embarrassed, frankly. He should be embarrassed about his behaviour in class but he isn’t and therefore he is now being held to account. If he doesn’t take this one on board, then it will keep happening.

It is quite likely that there is more going on, whether that’s undiagnosed SEN or something else, but it’s your job to work with the school to help him - talk more with him about what he is struggling with and be clear that you cannot condone his behaviour, so he needs to communicate with you about why he’s doing it. No excuses, no blaming school (he isn’t letting them help him - believe me, they’ve probably tried to engage him on these issues repeatedly), just frank discussions about why he’s making poor choices (or whether he really can’t help it - that sounds unlikely from what you’ve said).

Swearing at staff is a straight exclusion at the school I work in. Staff should not have to put up with it.
Students need to learn that you cannot go around swearing at people. It is abusive.

I was at a Y9 parents evening recently. Waiting I couldn’t help hear a conversation with a dad in front talking about his son.

The conversation was along the lines of ‘go on, tell me, I know he’s a bit of handful etc.’. Teacher was professional but told him he is disruptive and often sent to isolation etc.

Dad’s response:

“I’ve told him school will have to do something if you carry on but well what can I say, I like a laugh myself and was a bit of the class clown” and starts laughing.

God bless the teachers. Not saying this is you OP but don’t underestimate his impact on others.

So his behaviour was bad enough he was asked to leave the lesson, he then swore , raised his voice at the teacher and kept refusing to go. He was then in internal exclusion refused to do the work and walked out. He hasn't left the school with much choice has he. He's also had an isolation before which didn't have the desired effect.

@FrostedOwl Don't mean this as a pile on or try to make you feel guilty (hindsight is always wonderful) but did you contact someone about him not going to school? And did the school call for a meeting due to him being absent often?

It sounds like he's not OK and the adults around him only reacts when things get out of hand. I would like to know why he doesn't want to go to school- it's not normal behaviour (fine, to want it yes, but not act on it). Most teens are motivated to go to school in order to see their friends- is there something there that has happened? Bullying? I think school has been too strict- measures should be taken and tried before exclusion. Please call cahms OP and try to get help for your son.

Did he apologise to the teacher for his inappropriate behaviour ?

He has been given a time out to think about what is right & what is wrong.

Poor or bad behaviour has consequences

How bad is his anxiety? Any idea of the cause?

That was DC2's main issue from about y8 or 9 onwards. It was cripplling. They did well academically but not as well as they should have done. Turned out to be ADHD. But obviously that is only 1 of many possible causes of anxiety. .... it could obviously be for example not enough sleep, hormonal issues, bullying, pressure from the school, social insecurities etc etc etc

Without knowing the precise circumstances, although you’ve explained further OP, I’d say that the school felt that this was the escalation of sanctions following his behaviour. It might be that it turns out to be the shock that enables him to realise that he will have to make some changes to his behaviour if he wishes to complete his education at school.

It may be that he has some SEND, not linked to his academic ability, that is impacting on the way he is responding to teachers and his behaviour in general. Presumably there will be a reintegration meeting following the fixed term exclusion. You could ask for a meeting with the SENDCo to investigate whether additional support is needed and how that can be put in place.

He also needs to understand that challenging behaviour won’t help him to achieve the qualifications he will need for the next stage in life.

I really feel that you’re minimising his behavior. He swore at a teacher. Nobody goes to work to be sworn at. The school have a duty towards their staff as well as their pupils, he walked out of isolation. He’s showing them that he doesn’t give a crap about their rules or their consequences and, frankly, he’s on the fast track to permanent exclusion.

As a parent of three boys with SEN (adhd and autism) if they’d behaved like this, their world would have come crashing down. Phones and switches were confiscated for minor infractions, this would have meant 6 months hard labour and an indefinite grounding. They’d not even be allowed to watch tv after something like this! (I’d let them keep their books 😂)

After taking away phones etc. they had to be earned back by good behaviour.

About the initial incident at school, you said

Im not pretending thats ok. Ive said that to him and he knows it.

Did you just say that? Or did you do some kind of consequence at home as well? If you want school to work with you then you need to work with them too, and back them up when you know he's done something wrong.

The school sounds reasonable to me. They have tried isolation and he has shown that isolation does not work for him. So they need to progress to the next step.

He walked out of isolation so I can see why they didn’t think just more isolation was an appropriate punishment.

He was verbally abusive to a teacher - plenty of professions wouldn’t tolerate it, and teachers shouldn’t have to either.

One teacher told my son to "shut up" . His answer was ; "do it yourself". One day exclusion. He still doesn't get what he did wrong but he's autistic. There is only one teacher he's got a problem with. She tends to be very disrespectful to the students and says quite nasty stuff. All the other teachers are great and he's never had a problem with anyone. They have the intelligence to ask him to please be silent/ show with their finger and he's compliant. But when he feels aggressed he will talk back (without swearing).

I think the school have done the right thing to be honest OP. The only thing I thought was strange was how they said in the meeting today that the incident was more serious than they originally thought. I'm not sure what that means but from the information you've given I think they were right to exclude him for a fixed time. I'm sorry you are struggling with this. Hopefully your son learns his lesson moving forwards.

This is so awful for you, Op. You haven't failed him; you are doing your best.

It sounds as if there is something else going on with him. My first thought was that he is struggling academically, therefore giving out the 'I don't care' message and the swearing in class. But from what you have been told, his academic performance is good.

However, that doesn't mean that he feels successful or capable at what he is being asked to do. The reality and what his own mind tells him may be miles apart.

I just had a young teen stay with me (fostering) who had a similar attitude. The school wanted to exclude her because of repeated bad behaviour, refusing to attend class, being disruptive, and walking out. On the days she walked out, she was also getting the bus into town and going AWOL for hours.

It seemed the teachers were being very hostile towards her, too.

After some very long chats at my home, which she instigated when we sat together doing some craft, it came out that she felt she was incapable in maths. However, she was passing tests, albeit that she felt she was finding it an increasing struggle to do so. This was leading her to give the "f this" attitude in class, walking out many times. She was also beginning to self-harm. It's a kind of self-protection to say she didn't give a s about school just because she was sure she would begin failing tests and exams.

A bit like when we say, 'I don't love him anyway' when someone is about to dump us in a relationship!

It has emerged as a confidence issue, coming from something else that's going on in her life. She's back on track now, after lots of confidence boosting and the promise of extra maths help if she needs it. So far, she is managing now that she is getting extra mental health support and now she knows she doesn't have to struggle on alone in maths.

I wonder if there is something else troubling your boy, leading to the 'there's no point' stance.

It is hard to say whether the school have been unfair to your son or not; I'd say it often comes down to safeguarding.

If they feel his behaviour puts him or someone else at risk, then they did the only thing they could. It depends on the exact circumstances. But in your position, I'd focus on what you can do now to boost his self-esteem as that seems to be low.

Eilonwy's experience, posted above, is similar to those I have come across and this could be the case for your son too. There's a reason for him school refusing, but it may be related or unrelated to school if that makes sense.

You cant do anything about it now. Stick by the schools decision in front of your boy - a united front is key. If you undermine the school then he will just think hes been wronged and not deserving of punishment.

Maybe sending a message wont be so bad.

Also depends on what the swear was and how it was delivered. If he said "fuck off you cunt" and was aggressive - then yes he should be excluded as hes actually trying to be threatening. If he said "this lesson is fucking shit" in a non-direct tantrum kind of way - possibly its a bit extreme.

It sounds very difficult for you but he's impacting the learning of dozens of other kids. Maybe if he feels embarrassed he will try to behave better and realise the rules are for everyone. I hope you get some targeted support to help manage his behaviour so he gets back on track. Teachers shouldn't be sworn at in their workplace either.

Fixed term exclusions are actually called suspensions now, so if they've called it a fixed term exclusion then they're using the wrong terminology.
How many days has he been suspended for ?
When is the reintegration meeting?
He hasn't been permanently excluded so I'm not sure what the panic is about (unless he's had other suspensions and is now at risk of permanent exclusion?)

I hope he won't have access to his phone/games console etc while he's excluded. Because telling him that it wasn't right, isn't enough. He might well enjoy being excluded and getting to stay at home, unless you ensure that he's bored stiff.