Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

I'd love to have that discussion in front of the magistrates, not that it's ever going to happen.
I've got upwards of 40 kids who the system had spat out careers in the trades over 20+ years, I'm not their teacher, I'm not there to be nice and if they don't want the help they can do one - when they come out to big sites they get all sorts of flack thrown at them - and if they have what it takes they earn respect and a career (which they can't access without people willing to take them on) with good money and respect.
Telling it how it is in my world is the difference between life and death on many occasions - you don't mess about or the consequences are very serious - more serious than being taken to court for being rude I can assure you.

Yes, you answer very well. I get it. I totally get what you are saying and I 100% have no issue with what you say, do and so on. In fact I really rather admire you.

But, be bloody careful. A teacher only has to swear once in retaliation and it's all sorts of chaos, possible sacking. Teachers have to stand there and take it. But.... So do the cleaners, the dinner ladies, the school secretaries (who take all kinds of shit), the security staff... Everyone thinks it's just teachers necks on the line, but it's all staff. Anyone can be sacked/ taken to court for 'abusing' a 15 stone 'child' and taking advantage of their 'position of authority'. If a child has it in for you it's just a matter of time...

Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But in today's PC world, be bloody careful. In court, calling a child a wanker can't be justified.... And you will be hammered with a lot of bs about bullying them, humiliating them and affecting their mental health.

Why do you think teachers are leaving in droves??? They have to take it, take it, take it... But woe betide they snap once and give it back....

(look at this parent who has an 'issue' with the way the school has handled it... Howwwww?????). There's no shame amongst badly behaved children or parents any more...

For real?

My daughter went to a specialist speech and language secondary school where everyone had an ehc plan and the behavioural outbursts by many of the pupils were epic!

Yep I'd expect that in a 'specialist school'...

I'm talking about children in mainstream education who have been diagnosed with SEN. They have educational needs... But they aren't thugs/dontcdisplay thuggishness. Your daughter sounds more extreme

Surely you realise that the kids in SEN schools are only there through sheer luck of the draw, right? They're limited in the numbers they can accept... where do you think the students who aren't lucky enough to make the cut end up?

My sons Specialist school only intakes 10 students every academic year, that's out of over 100 applications... That's 90 students who have to potentially be educated in the mainstream system because there ARE no more specialist places in area.

Also, my son is not a fucking thug. jfc. swearing during a meltdown doesn't make anyone a 'thug' and if that's how you view disabled teenagers, i suggest you get the fuck out of being involved in their care or education.

'Swearing during a meltdown doesn't make anyone a thug?'

Are you nuts. What, directly at a female teacher or dinner lady???

I'd say it's the epitome of thug. Out of control. Threatening. Intimidating.

Thankfully, it's the more extreme cases who end up in PRUs.

I can get the' fuck out' can I? (I wonder where your child learnt their language/got their inspiration from).

It wasn't entirely the SEN. That's an excuse. It's the parents as well.

All I'm saying is that a 14 Yr old who swears at a teacher, intimidate etc, deserves all they get.

A 'thug' is someone who is behaving a particular way on purpose, with the sole reason to BE a bully, and to intimidate another person, usually with the end goal of being violent to commit a crime.

An overwhelmed disabled teenager having a meltdown is not acting violently with the purpose of committing a crime.

If you can't understand the difference then i stand by what i said, working with Teenagers with SEN is not the job for you.

I wouldn't waste my time. Too much money is spent on this, too much time, too much effort - to the detriment of children who do their best, have caring responsibilities, have problems at home, but who go under the radar because they are kind, thoughtful, mature, self sufficient, forced to grow up before their time.

Being unpleasant, threatening etc gets all the funding because it can't be ignored.

I can't be bothered wasting my time on people who justify such behaviour. The day they hit 18 no one cares any more bar he police.

Agree. Plenty of children dealing with all sorts of adversity manage not to ruin the learning environment for their peers

An overwhelmed disabled teenager having a meltdown is not acting violently with the purpose of committing a crime
Be that as it may, they shouldn't be able to wreck the education of an entire classroom of children

Dysregulation? I'm surprised you haven't heard of that, given your supposed role.

It's not an excuse, but it IS a cause.

Legally every child has the right to an education.

If they threatened a teacher, or anyone else, swore and intimidated them, I'd take away that right.

Their parents could then educate them at home.

Strangely, having a 14 Yr old at home full time would I believe suddenly make a lot of awful parents step up a gear with their parenting. See how they like being sworn at during the day. Fearful.

We live too much in a society where everyone has rights, but forgetting any responsibilities.

I long ago decided not to waste my time with thuggish children. It is a thorough waste of time, as are many of their parents.

Incidentally, such behaviour is resulting in the loss of hundreds, thousands of good teachers, who just can't be bothered any more. Everyone loses out due to the actions of the few. this isn't SEN, but awful parenting 99% of the time.

I never said it was.

DS was impacted by his disability enough to attend a SEN school specifically for kids with ASD and an EHCP, it was anticipated kids would experience meltdown, but they still had a strict behaviour policy they were all expected to follow.

A student who turned out to be a bully was removed from the school very quickly as their awful behaviour was disrupting everyone else.

Difference there was, they taught the kids emotional regulation alongside us parents, how to recognise their own triggers, to spot they were getting overwhelmed, to give them freedom to remove themselves to a calm area..etc.
They knew the difference between a badly behaved teen, and one in crisis.

Thats a resource missing from mainstream. They treat the ones in crisis like they're badly behaved, and you cant punish out the disability.

Did you try to find out (from your son),what happened to him,firstly,that made him get in trouble at school?If he got bullied and will firstly-definitely!!-not talk about it,he might see school like nightmare!That is why,I think (and I'm just a mum,not a specialist!),he doesn't like school-he sees there the bad that can happen to him...I am just thinking-try to get into an activity that he likes at home,go together to a movie or whatever he likes to do,play even video games with him!!🙂and try to find out what is really happening.They don't do bad things without something that's messing with their heads!I wish you good luck and try to get deeper into the matter,because there is something that's troubling him!

Oh come off it.
You think the OPs kid was dysregulated?
Nothing excuses a 14 year old boy swearing directly at a female teacher.

you have it the wrong way round. The badly behaved are treated like they are in a crisis. Look at this thread for example. That’s why teachers are leaving.

Can't give an opinion without context.

My teen can be rude, biligerant, difficult, obstructive, unkind to me, ‘all behaviour is communication’ is utter nonsense. My child does not have undiagnosed SEND. He ‘dysregulates’ when he doesn’t get his way.

My job is to PARENT him so school doesn’t see this side of him to the best of my ability. Which I do. it works most of the time.

I teach and I’m tired of reading excuses for poor behaviour. @FrostedOwl raising kids in this modern time is HARD. But support the school, hold your boundaries at home and seek support. He’ll be ok, he needs this wake up call!

All of this…. He was given a lighter punishment and didn’t co-operate so they had to increase the punishment.

Tbf I think you sound like a really lovely compassionate person, but I think you are too chilled out about it. I think you need to have the schools back.

my parents were overly strict and I think that brings other problems , but they definitely would not have used the term “school refusal”, this makes it sound like school is optional… if school was optional and they had my back I definitely wouldn’t have gone. If I swore at a
teacher and walked out of isolation they would have lost their mind and there is no way they would ever been critiquing the schools additional action. I 💯 would have been more terrified of my mother than the school.

I think of there was some sort of mitigating information like a change in family situation (illness/ divorce) or if your child is being bullied… you have already said there is no SEN….. I might not be as black and white.

sorry if that all sounds very unkind of me to say, because like I say you sound like a really kind mother. I also this is a perception that is more common in society now than 20 years ago.

If it makes any difference I’m not a keyboard warrior I would say this to a friend if they asked. Maybe not my
boss or an acquaintance, but I would stand over my opinion.

I can only sympathise. Schools are very strange places a lot of the time, and you won't get far with them. Can you look into counselling for him to deal with the self control issues?

When schools, mental health services, parents and wider society recognised that many young people don't feel comfortable going to school for a range of complex reasons, rather than just for fun.

'Truancy' was a lazy catch all term that absolved professionals and parents from the responsibility to work out what was going on.

So when they don't feel comfortable going to work for a range of complex reasons that will be OK as well?

It's more than a person or two. Unfortunately society seems to want to find excuses for everything. Behaviour is often just entitled, copycat behaviour. It's funny how the best kids seem to have the best, sensible parents with good ethics. The naughtiest children seem to have entitled pain in the arse parents...

Ah.
I did more than a course.

There are so many other reasons people behave the way they do than ADHD.

Takes one to know one.