Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

You say isolation was mentioned but the he walked out of isolation so really what would the next steps be other than this?
I know it’s hard on you but kids need to learn there are consequences for bad behaviour?
Ideally what would you have wanted them to do?

^Yes this. And I don’t know why so many posters are accusing the OP of minimising the misbehaviour of her DS. She really isn’t, she’s backing the school in front of him and making it clear to him that he has only himself to blame. And she’s giving him consequences.

She isn’t one of those parents that we do see on MN minimising their DCs’ behaviour.

Sorry you are going through this, I think schools are quick to judge especially around attendance. Perhaps he has unmet needs in school, especially since you’ve spoken to them about anxiety and you say he isn’t like this at home. Maybe his “school refusal” is because he feels physically unable to go into school, despite what he says (they don’t always want us to know what they’re feeling).just because school say he’s coping fine doesn’t mean he is, children mask very well in many cases and sometimes tha gets too much and results in the behaviours you are seeing. It’s difficult, believe me I know, have you asked them for referral to emotional resilience nurse at school? I’m not saying it will help but if he’s struggling with anxiety and a difficulty in getting to school, it might. He needs to trust that there is someone in school who will listen to him and “be on his side”, see past the behaviours displayed and see if there’s something they’re missing

Ok, could by anything. Again, the cause needs to be found.

It just wouldn't have been a thing at any of my schools

Your very small sample size of things you personally knew about or experienced is insignificant.

would be straight onto the parents if we didn't show up for school and no one had informed school we were sick

That happens now...

Kids have realised school is optional and there's nothing their parents are going to do about it.

And what, exactly would you do about it?

Kids had anxiety back then too yet funnily enough still managed to get to school!

Yeah, in some cases that's probably true, as it is today as well. Lots of things happened 'back then' that wasn't handled very well, long-term. Not a gold standard really.

Ive only read uour replies OP not other posts so apologies if others have suggested this but firstly its fine to approach the school calmly asking if they can tell you when/if things go wrong as soon as they happen so you can work together. Secondly some people need to plan and practice their responses when they feel on the spot or taken aback, or dont know something. Maybe your son is one of them, perhaps you and DH can help him pravtice appropriate responses in school situations?

I didn't say school shouldn't exclude him. I said mum should take more initiative in working out if there is something behind his behaviour, supported by a range of services.

Your very small sample size of things you personally knew about or experienced is insignificant.

@Yogetter you regularly hear it on the news now so it's not just my very small sample size. Are you trying to claim the rates of school refusal aren't way up compared to a decade or two ago?

That happens now...

And then what happens? The parents say "yes he's at home but just can't be bothered to come in today?"

And what, exactly would you do about it?

Make them understand that it's not an option? Drive them there? What's the alternative? Just let them never go to school if they don't feel like it? I suppose you could always change schools if it's an issue with bullying or something. Otherwise, therapy to understand what's going on with them.

Yeah, in some cases that's probably true, as it is today as well. Lots of things happened 'back then' that wasn't handled very well, long-term. Not a gold standard really.

Getting a regular education kind of is a gold standard compared to today...

Hearing about things more is not indicative of its increase in occurrence, just in recognition and reporting.

And then what happens? The parents say "yes he's at home but just can't be bothered to come in today?"

You have a very odd idea of what happens in most people's lives.

Make them understand that it's not an option?

Ooh. Do go on, I'm not sure anyone has tried this before. How exactly would you succeed in this?

Drive them there?

I'd love to see you manhandle anyone over the age of 6 or 7 who is refusing to get into the car and 'drive them there'! Best of luck, I'll bring popcorn and an ice pack for your hurt pride when it doesn't happen.

What's the alternative?

What, indeed.

Otherwise, therapy to understand what's going on with them.

Ah, excellent point. Not bad at all. Quite different to physically forcing them into a vehicle.

Probably the same time “pupils” became known as “learners”

Ok well he needs to stop swearing at teachers and refusing to leave rooms when asked.

He's being punished and he could get permanently kicked out of he doesn't stop acting this way.

Be supportive of the school disciplinary measures and reward him for consistent good behaviour in school.

Well that will be because we are constantly battling sweeping generalizations, all of which are incredibly dismissive. Just because you may have come across a person or two who you think is using SEND as an excuse, that doesn’t mean the rest of us are doing it. And to be honest, unless you have some special expertise in the area, you may well have totally misjudged the situation anyway.

Well of course, but the rhetoric now is that to acknowledge that he’s swearing/being rude/aggressive is wrong and unhelpful…

oh you sweet summer child.
I didn't even grow up in the city, i went to a rural comprehensive, and it was rife, kids used to just either not turn up and play hooky in town or at their mates houses, or bugger off at lunchtime when the gates were open as we were allowed off-site to eat, and not bother coming back.. and that was in the 80's/90's

Just because it didn't happen in your schools doesn't mean it was rare, or 'not common as it is now'

In terms of 'school refusal' it has just been recognised that the avoidance these days sometimes has an emotional/mental health cause, and not just kids trying to avoid school because they CBA to be there/don't like the teachers/lessons.

@FrostedOwl I've read all your posts on the thread, but not the whole thread itself. And just wanted to say, sounds to me like you're doing great, with a pretty normal 14 year old. You're not letting him off the hook, but you're not assuming all the school's decisions are automatically the right ones either - I think that's spot on parenting.

FWFI - me & my siblings skipped school regularly, and I'm sorry to say swore at teachers as well, and we turned out ok. That said. I think it's great you're trying to dig a bit deeper into why - he feels 'stupid' when he's put on the spot and all that. That must be hard for a 14yo boy. There will be a reason somewhere. There definitely was for us.

You sound like a very caring, supportive parent who is doing everything they can to try and work out what’s upsetting your boy and at the same cooperate with the school. That’s not an easy balance. Ignore all the judgement parent bashing comments here on mumsnet. My advice is to consider screening him for neuro divergence and/or anxiety. Your poor son is having a rough time and something significant is triggering this behaviour. Maybe the school can get him a mentor? Or when he gets overwhelmed can he be given a pass to go to pastoral or somewhere like that? It’s about de-escalation and understanding the root causes. Of course consequences play a part in this but the school needs to work with you through better communication. Having one contact there may help? Someone from SEN or pastoral department?

Well that's nonsense. Of course swearing at people who are doing their job to try and help you improve your life is appalling. If that can't be acknowledged and punished and then rectified then there's no hope for him or any other disruptive teen.

I just did an adhd course. Children with ADHD are around twice as likely to die before the age of 10, largely due to increased risk-taking behaviours and accidents.
Adults with ADHD are up to five times more likely to die by age 46, most commonly as a result of accidents, injuries, suicide, or homicide.
When ADHD is left untreated, life expectancy may be reduced by 11–13 years, an impact greater than that associated with many widely recognised health risks such as obesity, smoking, alcohol use, sleep deprivation, or physical inactivity.

Sorry what does that have to do with a kid swearing at a teacher?
Also, I would query those statistics. What sample size are they based on? Was the ADHD diagnosed? What timespan are we talking about?

I assume they're trying to get on the 'you should get them checked out' bandwagon of people trying to armchair diagnose.

I have ADHD, so do both my kids (we all also have ASD) and trust me, it was very much noticeable in both of them prior to the age of the OP's kid. It probably was in me too, my school reports are full of comments about my chattering/day dreaming/distractability... but i was 40 before i GOT a diagnosis.

A bit of swearing/loss of temper does not ADHD make.

Shame he can't be placed in the stocks and have rotten tomatoes thrown at him by the teacher, children he's intimidated and anyone else who has had the misfortune to have to deal with this thug.

A bit of humiliation might bring him and his bravado down a peg or two. In a few years he'd be sacked on the spot. Any further escalation of this behaviour as an adult and he'd be in the cells (hopefully).

Children like this make everyone's lives a misery. They waste resources, suck all the educational professionals budget, and blame everyone but themselves for the consequences. Where's the father? Where's the SEN report?

He's a bully. A 14 Yr old bully.

You were lucky you weren't recorded or there were any witnesses to this exchange. If he had proof you called him a wanker that would be a career over moment for you, marched out the building moment.

There's no way back for the teacher. Many have lost their jobs over far less, and children, angry children, are looking eagerly for the opportunity.

I wouldn't repeat this strategy... It's only a matter of time before you will be sacked instantly for gross misconduct (with a witness) or suspended (with no witness or lingering doubt with SMT)

I'm not a teacher, I'm an electrician who goes to run short courses on trade skills unpaid - and take some of them on for work experience - to give the kids a leg up.

I can't be sacked, I'm the MD of my firm, unless I sack myself.

I feel very sad to read this thread and see all the posts explaining his behaviour due to SEN or possible autism. I have worked with dozens of children with an EdPsch diagnosis... None of them would dream of swearing at and intimidating teachers.

There's no link between SEN and thuggishness.

I've yet to hear who he swore at. We have quite a few 5ft newly qualified female teachers in my child's school... And quite a few late 50s ladies trying to earn a few bob before retirement, many with health issues and caring responsibilities. Tell me it wasn't someone like that, please...

If it was, wow your son is a gem. What a man. Demanding respect, innit, I presume???

Calling a (technically under 18yrs old) child a 'wanker' in a 1:1 environment where you are supposed to be the responsible adult with responsibility for their well being could land you in serious hot water. That child would love to call the police and, if you are proven to have acted like that, you could go to court. At best, you may be required to have a chaperone from now on.

Don't call a child a wanker. In the eyes of a court the adult always loses. You can't justify it.

Don't be so naive. It's nuts.