Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

There are loads of men on MN, the majority hang about on the sex topic.

You've shown zero understanding, or willing to listen, just told everyone they are wrong.

What's going on with your life and women being wary of you, it's an issue that's about you as a person and how you come across, work on that before you decide to come on here mansplaining.

No, you’re not allowed. That what the disabled loo is for. Not because your child is a threat, but because girls have a right to change without the presence of boys. They gave the right to privacy and dignity. Just as boys have the right to change without the presence of girls for the same reason.

Men are more likely to be a danger to women and children. Whether they are fathers or not, it’s irrelevant.

No they're not but it's not the job of women to figure that out. They just need to be respectful and follow appropriate boundaries, ie not entering a space where there are there naked and half naked females. I'd argue the fact that they are so entitled to enter makes them creepy. Most men wouldn't dare.

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

Was your dad , your brother , the father of your children ?
Maybe not to your own kids but by going by what you are saying , they are when it comes to everyone else's .

Actually, I did listen and understand. And there was a lot of very helpful information for which I am grateful.

But I've taken the liberty to correct those who deliberately misunderstood me.

Incidentally, the women who are wary of me don't know me - they are rather the people who believe that dads should stay in the pub and not play with their children (and then probably complain that they don't help).

I'm sorry Alex but you share your sex with the perpetrators of 90% of child sex abuse and all rape, and women are programmed to spot danger more than men are. In order not to be looked at with suspicion in a place where there are children, you need to keep your eyes strictly on your own children or make friends with the mothers who are there. And not to go into female only spaces at all, ever, unless you hear a woman crying out in distress and there is no female around.

You are, I hope, a good guy. But there are far too many bad ones around for women to drop their guard.

The stats for the number of woman who have been sexually harassed are astounding. I find them inconceivable until I remember the business suited man on the train to work rubbing himself up against my seat while standing in the aisle.

If men want this to change they have to start watching their fellow men and calling them out on poor behaviour.

My father wasn't creepy and nor is my children's father. However I would be furious if my husband decided that the right thing to do is to go into the women's changing room. Thankfully he wouldn't have a lapse in judgment as he's too aware.

If you’re genuine, OP, I hope you’re reading and learning - that would be an amazing thing to do.

My husband was a ‘SAHD’ for our kids for 6 years (quotation marks as I hate the phrase but it’s hard to find an easily-understood better one). I went back to work when oldest was six months old and then when youngest was nine months.

He had some of the challenges you describe around baby changing, and occasionally had to politely point out that not every adult at a baby group was ‘mum’ (he did this not just on his own behalf but for the grandparents etc). He also recognised his enormous privilege in being the male caregiver in that he was often seen as achieving something astonishing and heroic simply taking care of his own children. Staff in shops and cafes fell over themselves to help and praise him.

He took both kids (one boy one girl) to swimming and various other classes and never once set foot in a women’s changing room, though his privilege did mean that he was occasionally helped out by women looking out for our little girl.

One of the reasons I love and respect him is that he has listened and learned from the women in his life - not just me, but other relatives and friends - when we’ve talked about what it’s like to be scared and braced for danger all the time. If you mean well, maybe it’s worth you doing the same.

They may not know you personally, but they definitely know your type.

We all do.

You don't.

That was my first thought too

Oh trust me we know your type

Sadly, your daughter will work for herself that a fair proportion of men are creeps, and will become wary of them. The ones that ogle, the ones that grope, the ones that press up against her on public transport. No matter what you say to her about 'most men aren't creeps' she'll soon spot the pattern for herself. And she will become wary, which sadly might just keep her safer than if she is too trusting.

When my 10 year old gets changed for her swimming lessons there is a boy from her class often getting changed after his at the same time.
Knowing the boy, I know why his mum doesn’t trust him to be on his own in the men’s, but I do wonder how comfortable my daughter feels about this now she is becoming older and more conscious of her body. It can’t be fun having one of her male peers in the room while she’s changing.
I haven’t asked her in case it makes a big deal of something that isn’t actually bothering her, but I am monitoring it.

As much as you like to think you're original and different, I can assure you that you really aren't, and we can spot you and your ilk a mile off.

I have never seen normal fathers treated as creepy before. I have experienced multiple creepy men who have done stuff like make inappropriate sexual comments or try to follow me home. If you're often being treated like you're creepy or surrounded by women who are concerned about your behaviour, there's probably a reason.

You see Alex you give yourself away every time for your entrenched misogyny.

Some women feel uneasy that a man is watching their kids at a playground.

And you leap from that to deciding that they are women who would tell their husband to go to the pub and then complain about them for not helping with the kids.

Can you hear yourself?

No.

100%

"Actually, I do understand the reason why women are more wary"

Actually @Alex122022 no, you do not.

You have zero idea of the experiences of an adult human female and all that entails.

Sadly they don’t always. Or not in sufficient quantity. Our pool has 1 and if I remember correctly, it doubles up as the disabled changing room.

🍪

Sorry no. This is completely incorrect. It’s a fact that most violent crimes / sex crimes are committed by men. That statistic alone means there are far fewer violent women than men. (Unless you are meaning a man can be a rapist or sexual predator and still be ‘nice’)