Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

Nope! Still posting on the other thread.

Indeed - having to grow up in a world where so many women believe all men are creeps will make her life difficult. But I do have hope that she will get on well.

Not all fathers are creepy, but the ones who hang out in female changing rooms definitely are. My DH would never ever consider going into a female changing room. He knows it’s inappropriate and wouldnt even want to.

As women, we don’t need an easy way to tell whether a man is creepy or not. We can sense it a mile away. We have grown up since puberty being leered at by creepy men on an almost daily basis.

Our local swimming pools have mixed changing areas with individual cubicles. I find this uncomfortable. I'm probably old fashioned.

Op you came on here and asked a not very innocent question of all the women, we all answered the same way, and you don't want to take the answer

I'm pretty sure that somewhere up thread you made a comment that women are a threat too?

There was a thread earlier in the week saying that men should stay off this site, and fwiw I agree .

And, I have both girls and boy children. Both their father and I have ALWAYS stuck to the changing room or toilet appropriate to our sex. Our children have made their own way into the changing room or toilet appropriate to their sex from the age of around 8 upwards. There have been no rapes, no assaults. They aren't damaged from seeing male appendages in a changing room.

And no, it is not for women to solve this problem. If you don't want to take your dd into the male changing room, do something about the male changing room, do not barge into ours.

Creepy sleazy male poster tries to convince us not all men are creepy sleazy wankers
not quite the win he thinks it is

Or change the percentage so that not so many men revere creepy behaviour

or pray she’s lesbian

Not exactly the same but my brothers wife died and he bought up the new born baby, when my niece was 7 she was doing a Ballet performance, he just innocently went back stage to collect her (when all parents told to do so by the Ballet teacher) some girls were getting changed behind screens, he quickly left, a couple of mothers weren't happy but all he was doing was getting his daughter.

He always said to me, not in anyway in relation to the above incident "Its a Womans World bring up a child in the UK, they say they want dads to be more involved but they moment they are, they don't like it and feel threatened"

Lives in Sweden now, they simply do not have these debates about how "creepy" men are, his Swedish wife's argument is this "UK mothers bought up these men...."

Absolutely not.

I've reported him. Twat

It’s not because your son in particular is regarded as a threat or a pervert. It’s because girls and women have a right to change away from boys and men, and that right trumps your son’s in this situation. Because it’s the female changing room. Do you think a 10yo girl should have to suck up her embarrassment and get changed in front of your son? He’ll still be disabled at 15 - should girls put up with him in their changing room then?

Yes, please do let is know how your imaginary daughter gets on trusting all men, even the ones pushing boundries by being in her spaces, even the one who disregard her feelings, even the ones every instinct in her screams out to distrust, but her dad brought her up to trust men rather than herself so she minimises her feelings for the sake of random men.

I hear that goes really well for women generally.

When you have boy babies not even lesbianism is a hopeful option

Why would a man choose to take his daughter into the woman’s changing room? Because he doesn’t want men seeing her naked. I don’t see how that means it’s okay for everything woman and girl in the woman’s changing room to be seen by a man. And I don’t believe a man would be that clueless as to not realise it’s inappropriate.

The park scenario sounds like it was either a weird person or you were acting weird. I don’t think many people would see a man playing with their kid in the park and make a comment like that.

For the changing rooms - yes they should have better facilities. There’s a lot of places with a separate changing area now. Even so it’s easy to work around it. I don’t think I’ve ever used a public changing table because they’re normally gross. You can change them in the pram or in a cubicle if they’re old enough to stand.

It’s like the bear analogy.

Women: we’d choose the bear
Men: fucking bitches, I hope you get eaten, fuck you
Women:

I think an awful lot of women are bored of men who are shocked that men as a whole are seen as creeps by women but seem to think it’s not men’s fault.

The answer isn’t in you understanding and being educated at this point. If you are old enough to have a daughter you will have witnessed men harassing women many times. You will most likely have done it a few times and you will have been near friends and colleagues while they do it quite a lot. You need to change that culture. Once you’ve started on that journey you’ll have something to talk about on here.

I can actually see why there are not many other dads here - if one takes some of the more vocal posters seriously (and literally), they get upset and sling around accusations and insults.

My original intend was genuinely to understand how one - as a father - can help to defuse situations that make women feel uncomfortable, without having to constantly profess one's good intentions (which in itself would be suspicious.

This is about parenting and being a parent in the presence of a child - not about men on their own. I completely understand that men on their own pose a very different issue.

Some seem to object to my style of writing: I'm sorry, it's not meant to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but a) English isn't my first language and b) most of my written communications are reasonably formal.

Agree. If you’re worried about your son in the men’s changing area, then you need to find a way to manage through family changing, disabled changing, dry robes etc. it isn’t fair that you make girls uncomfortable in their designated area. While I have every sympathy for the difficult situation you are in, it needs to be addressed with pool management etc rather than making girls uncomfortable. Do they not have disabled changing you can use? Definitely raise with management.

There aren’t many other dads here because it’s MUMSNET! Maybe take a stroll over to a site for dads?

You might be surprised that I actually do worry about my daughter and try to think how I can help her to navigate this.

I don't think that I have consciously harassed anyone, it was never my intention. The problem is that if one struggles with reading emotions, one relies on being told if a behaviour is inappropriate.

Completely disagree.
My daughters friends have really lovely kind fathers that would do anything for them, including the divorced fathers.
All really nicd guys.

If you've ever read any threads on here about men you'd probably know it's a site where an awful lot of people are anti men.

If you're new here, lesson learned.

I don't necessarily find men creepy unless they do something that shows me otherwise.

Is a man going into a female changing room creepy, yes if he's naked, and unless he has an alterior reason It's possible the man in question just thought it was his DD so it was the right changing room or maybe didn't want his DD seeing other men's naked bodies, or them seeing her...Maybe he thought women wouldn't think anything of his DD changing in there as its where shes supposed to be..
Clearly he didn't think about the whole picture.

His behaviour while in there would tell me all I need to know.

Is it a bit of an eyebrow raser that any man would enter females spaces....definitely.

Do I agree it should be acceptable...definitely not.

Nobody can say 'all', not all fathers, not all men. Of course not. But it's still far too many, whatever the number.
It's never been a woman who's made me uncomfortable with unwanted sexual attention and feel unsafe, out on the street or in the work place.

My original intend was genuinely to understand how one - as a father - can help to defuse situations that make women feel uncomfortable, without having to constantly profess one's good intentions (which in itself would be suspicious.

It’s really simple actually. Just don’t be a creep. Stay out of female only spaces and be respectful to females whether you are with your child, or not.

My DH has managed to raise our DD without any of the issues you seem to be facing.

Thanks - yes, I think I've learned that lesson.