Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

Wow just wow 😮. So going by this it’s it’s women yet again who are blamed and held responsible for men’s inappropriate creepy behaviour. Do we generally place the blame at fathers feet for the majority of crimes women commit? When a man complains that a wife is ‘nagging’ or whatever misogynistic bullshit they criticise women for, is that all the fathers fault - thy brought them up after all- should have taught them not to nag. Interesting that’s never mentioned.

I dunno.

Why do women have to explain how to do this to you?

Are you incapable of working it out for yourself?

Misogynist marries a woman with internalised misogyny shocker!

You think by the time your dd is clothes shopping in adult shops she's going to want you anywhere near the cubicle while she's changing?

In fact why would you want to be anywhere near your teen dd while she's changing?

Well, because as women we spend decades having to monitor the behaviour of the men around us and also consider if our own behaviour will be perceived as putting us at risk. Asking for it. From the age of 12 or younger, we are spoken to and touched by men in damaging ways, and we don’t have the luxury of giving them the benefit of the doubt because when we do we get raped or murdered, and blamed for our own assault. That’s what’s different. For most of us, our survival has been dependent on making snap decisions to keep us safe. So that’s what you’re engaging with.

The men I value are working on calling out and calling in male peers, rather than challenging women.

The fact you think you need to read emotions to not harass women shows that you just haven’t tried at all.

I’m not surprised you worry about your DD. You should be worried for her. But it is the male culture you seem to have no concerns about that is the issue. Until you take the time to look at that critically and try to change it, we have nothing we can tell you that will really make a difference. Because it is male entitlement that is the issue. Whatever individual actions we tell you men shouldn’t do will just be replaced by others until that entitlement is addressed by men.

"As men we, in all probability, have never been leered at, inappropriately touched talked down to or had to put up with all manner of sexist behaviour."

Actually? All of that. And there is sufficient sexist behaviour - especially in the workplace. There appears to be the expectation that men don't need e.g. time off to deal with their children - and this often made very clear.

Obviously it's rarer - but that doesn't mean it does not exist.

I didn't mean the changing but the logistics of getting different sizes etc.

And who set that system up Alex?

The girl/daughter should be capable of trying clothes on herself without daddy lurking around in the changing rooms! If the daughter NEEDS someone with her, there surely must be a female family member or friend or someone, if not then a shop assistant. NO WOMAN in the changing rooms wants a man in there. Not one.

@Alex122022 You are giving the impression you're a man with your naivety. No woman would have asked such a question.

You'll only confuse him if you bring facts into the argument!

Stop feeding him

"The fact you think you need to read emotions to not harass women"

Some people really struggle with reading other people's emotions. It is not nice and makes life difficult, but unfortunately there's not much one can do about apart from learning.

Again, why would you be loitering about your teen+ dd in the changing area?

Sounds to me like you're looking for excuses that you think are reasonable to be in women's spaces and using your poor dd to get there.

This is what I am getting from the OP too. Definitely a man.

I'm really sorry - but I have absolutely no experience of clothes shopping for women. For me, it's easy as my size doesn't really change - but I assume that's not the case for her.

Most women find strange men staring at their naked bodies makes them uncomfortable. HTH.

Not really - why should I?

Why are people saying they know what most men are like and making accusations that the OP is a predator to women?

Do you have them within your own family?
Do you also feel your own Grandfather's, Fathers, Uncles, Brothers, Husbands, Nephews....or even your own son's are predators to women and DC..

Yeah, this thread isnt getting any better on the creepy vibes is it?

Predatory men may be fathers, husbands, uncles, brothers and sons

It’s not exactly rocket science. Any decent father should have at least a vague idea of the clothes sizes of his child, especially if younger. An older girl/teen ,would know for herself. Just get that size, if unsure pick another one in a size bigger. Go back for a different size if needed. The older girl/teen can decide for herself if it’s a good fit. If need be, she can come to the door. DD is very private and I’m her mum, so that’s what we do.

Yes, I am aware that they may be behind closed doors. I mean, I know DH isn't, but I couldn't speak for any of the others and in fact I would be pretty sure that, although not predatory perhaps, the men in my family including my dad/uncles/grandad do/look at/think things that if I knew I would be fucking disgusted

You shouldn't be in women's changing areas.

You shouldn't be around your teen dd when she's changing.

You shouldn't be trying to look for excuses to be in there.

Just FYI your faux naivety of it's easy as my size doesn't really change - but I assume that's not the case for her looks like you're trying to get women to talk about girls bodies changing, which isn't helping you "But I'm a good guy" case at all.

Well , my father is dead , but doubt it. My grandfather was a creep, so was my cousin, so was my (respectable, married , father of two) maths tutor, so were my classmates who were someone’s lovely sons.Ask me how I know…