School Readiness

[MissLead]

So on the news this morning it was reported that 37% of kids going to school in UK are not deemed ‘ready’ often lacking basic speech and not being toilet trained.

Assuming these kids have no medical conditions - there must be some bloody lazy parents out there!!

@ERthree I suspect some of the children who weren't able to be potty trained in time due to SEN didn't attend and shipped off elsewhere.

Kind of boring how quickly this is all being blamed on feckless benefit claimants. It could easily be working parents to blame too.

They can’t always tell the difference, but that is irrelevant to whether or not their should be trying to potty train their children. The vast majority of children with SEN can be toilet trained. It might take longer for them to learn, but considering their bodies grow and develop in the same way as NT children's do. Unless there is physical disability too of course, but that is much more likely to be diagnosed. Considering that potty training should start between 2 and a half to 3, and children don’t start school until after 4, there is still plenty of time to train them, even if it takes more time.

Comments on this thread show that many parents seem to think any and all SENs are a reason not to bother trying and to wait for someone else to do it.

I don’t think the short period of time that sure start centres were around have anything to do with it. We managed toilet training fine before they were a big thing, and they seem to manage in the rest of the world too.

If you think a parent who wants their child to learn can't nip onto a free site and ask for some books, or save up 10 or 20 pence to buy them one from charity, I can't imagine what you were doing to 'directly address' anything, let alone child poverty.

But as you said earlier

"I have no expectations of parents and children".

Our library doesn't charge late fees for children's books. Also there is a large metal box outside the library that you can post your returned books into. You don't have to return during library hours, just have to take your books out during the library's opening hours.

Charity shops sell books, they are reasonably priced

A teacher in the after school club commented to me earlier that the young class for reception starting at 4-5 definitely had children who weren't ready to be there. So yes, they are seeing that.

If anyone is concerned/worried/infuriated by this thread and wants to do something about it, can I ask you to please consider donating to Book Trust, who do wonderful work to get books to disadvantaged children!

www.booktrust.org.uk

I think it is but I think there is very little good in handing out cash to parent for it. Far better use of this money would be to provide practical help in the form of surestart etc.

Who has said that parents of SEND children shouldn't try? As you said, some will take longer and that is no matter how much parents try.

My point wasn't about parents not trying, it was about excluding children who aren't potty trained from school. As you have said, you can't always tell the difference which would mean that some SEND children who aren't capable of potty training at 4 would be discriminated against and excluded from accessing state education.

Physical disabilities can take time too. For example, incontinent teams are rarely interested if a child is under the age of 7.

That's great, ours sadly does. The metal box sounds like a great idea, I will approach my LA with this as it could help many working parents. I agree the library is a valuable resource when run properly. We are lucky that the library bus comes to my DCs school which I'm sure provides resources to many parents in need and our LA subscribes to the Dolly Parton imagination library which I'm sure helps many parents but sadly these things are not nation wide. The LA I work for doesn't have these resources and has a much higher percentage of DC living in poverty.

None of us are talking about these families though are we? They certainly don’t make up the 37% of children that aren’t school ready

Disabilities still cost money though. Practical help wouldn't take away the cost of having a child with a disability.

I think the metal box came into being as unfortunately our local library is not open that often. It's been great for me to be able to drop books off into it.

It's so lovely to hear someone really appreciate the value of libraries. DD is a librarian and does feel that the resource is undervalued by a lot of people.

I'll try again. I didn't say it wasn't physically possible for a parent to do this. I explained at some length the barriers being in deep poverty can cause to optimum parenting.
I didn't invent this idea personally, it's a fairly well accepted understanding gained via the research of experts in the field.
I worked on projects that aimed to address poverty through income minimisation, increasing access to opportunities for work and training for parents, financial capability, and campaign work. This didn't require me to have 'expectations' of children. I had hopes for them, certainly. But they werent there to meet my standards. My role was to try to help raise standards for them.

Like???

Most parents on benefits are working and this wouldn't help but plunge more people into poverty in turn affecting the children e.g buying clothes even if 2nd hand, now having to work more to make up the difference so likely spending less time helping to toilet train. If you struggle with reading, you may think the books etc your child reads are at a good enough level and don't know what more to do. If you don't have the resources and/or knowledge of where to go for speech delays or may not even know of conditions like dyspraxia (particularly with the HV and Early Help services being so poor). Many public libraries have closed down unfortunately. Cutting benefits would affect things like buying enough food, and other needs of the family and children (e.g bills, rent, perhaps having to move because you can't afford somewhere anymore, and housing right now is abysmal).

None of that would help with the problem and cause further issues. There needs to be better training of HV and Early Help/support, more community-run things that appeal to poor, deprived parents through funding in libraries and other services. Hopefully some of the planned 'Best Start Hubs' help with some of the overall school readiness criteria as well as better investment and outcomes for SEN.

Please can we also stop assuming that every child with an autistic spectrum disorder can't be toilet trained. My son actually trained himself despite having autism and adhd, he saw his dad standing up to wee and copied him. DS was 2 years old. I agree that not all children are the same, but he did it. And I'm from a very poor family, my mother taught me how to read before I started school. She went to jumble sales and bought me books. I remember her buying me 2 books from WH Smiths when I was 7. Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights. Very poor quality paper, but I still have them.
Some families try very hard despite poor backgrounds.

Getting your child out of nappies means saving money so you could argue that benefit claimants are more likely to be motivated to potty train.

I dunno, one of my kids is SEN and I knew a lot of parents when they were little who had basically decided it wasn't their problem because of a whole myriad of reasons. I potty trained my son and it was the most stressful thing I've ever done, but we got there eventually.

The state is never really going to be able to make up for a child having crap parents.

If your child isn’t in childcare it might be difficult to recognise if they are behind. My twins talked all the time when they were 3, I could have conversations with them because I listened to them all day. But nursery pointed out they couldn’t understand much of what they said and it turned out they did need speech therapy when assessed properly they were missing out loads of sounds.

Well, it largely depends on the disability and then the individual child but that is why different rates of DLA exist.

incontinence pads
adapted shoes if a child wears braces
adapted clothes if a child has sensory needs
private therapy such as physio or hydrotherapy
sensory toys
weighted blanket for sensory needs
specific foods if a child has ARFID and you have to make separate meals

etc etc

SEND isn't just Autism.

I didn't say it was, I am fully aware of that. I'm merely pointing out that people lump all together and make assumptions about abilities. There have been numerous posts prior to today which give the impression that no child with autism can be toilet trained.

I wonder if the negative effects of poverty on headspace and mental health is behind some of the potty training delay. It seems like there are lots of people that attempt potty training but give up. They claim it's because the child isn't ready but I suspect it's more often that it's the parent that isn't coping with it. I get it, it's hard, I found it grueling and anxiety inducing and can understand why someone with poor mental health would want to put it off.