School Readiness

[MissLead]

So on the news this morning it was reported that 37% of kids going to school in UK are not deemed ‘ready’ often lacking basic speech and not being toilet trained.

Assuming these kids have no medical conditions - there must be some bloody lazy parents out there!!

I'm not blaming them. I'm just wondering what has happened to us as a society that some parents appear to be utterly clueless and letting their children down and something is preventing other family members from noticing, intervening and helping. Children are being let down in all this.

I agree. I always heard that the later starting date in other countries did not mean their children were behind ours. On the contrary, they hit the ground running when they start formal education at 6 or 7, whereas many of our children, especially boys, have been put off education for life after being expected to do things that developmentally are too early for them.

Look at all the threads on here about going NC with grandparents because they have different ideas of how to raise children.

I know. It's depressing that so many people (of all ages) are incapable of managing to have tricky conversations in a diplomatic and sensitive way.

You know when we say can use the toilet independently, well mine is 4 in May so due to start school in September. She is absolutely fine going for a wee by herself and can wipe and wash hands. However a number 2 is a different story and does need help and actually sometimes withholds so has the odd accident.

She is also still in pull ups overnight.

Does this count as school ready? I know we have until September so we're obviously working on it.

The problem is that if parents have had 4 years and haven't managed to introduce their children to a book or potty train them, they certainly aren't going to have prepared them for a formal education by 6. At least if they start school at 4 they have a fighting chance of catching up.

We seem to expect less and less of our children in general.
Here in Scotland the rate of deferring school has skyrocketed so many children aren’t starting school until they are nearly 6 for no reason other than parents now have that choice.
I know very few children who do chores and children seem to have less and less independence and basic skills like using cutlery seems to be valued less.

Interestingly all the parents I know who have used modern cloth nappies have also potty trained around 2 years old. I think they are probably more motivated by the promise of less washing and many of them are also popping their babies on the potty when they see them pooing from tiny so it’s just part of their routine. It always surprises me that most parents now don’t even buy a potty until their child 2.5.
I think it doesn’t help that in every Facebook/ mumsnet post where someone asks how to potty train there is always post after post telling them to wait until they are older and that it doesn’t sound like they are “ready” if they don’t get it in 3 days. Potty training is a skill and if they’ve been used to just doing the toilet in their comfortable nappy their entire life it’s a hard habit to break and then if they are older they can be really stubborn which often seems to result in poo withholding for some reason whereas your average 18 month isn’t self conscious enough to be embarrassed etc.
Pampers and the like also have excellent sales campaigns and are making larger and larger sizes of nappies. School nurseries can no longer insist that children are potty trained before starting and quite frankly having a child in nappies is far more convient than a potty trained 2 year old who you have to take to the toilet.

This is exactly my experience too, when school starts later. In addition, my kids are finishing school at the same time as their 2-3 year older cousins in Europe. Yes the education systems are different with good and not so good points, but I cannot stop thinking that if we need to use the first years of primary to support a large cohort of kids who don't have basic skills, we're effectively taking some education time from them all.

Just a thought.

But if 37% of parents are feckless idiots who are too lazy to teach their child to use a toilet or turn a page in a book, we need them in school earlier so those poor kids actually have a chance in life. Not for formal education, but to attempt to undo the damage from their early years.

According to the same report, '95% of parents say their child is read to at least
weekly; 45% saying reading is daily.'

Who will pay for this? Let me guess, the taxpayer - to do the parent's job for them. Labour will love this, giving grafter's money to the feckless...again.

I think we have it all backwards as a society. School is such a powerful concept. I'll admit I'm biased because I have 3 children who were all broken by their schools, and I had a really hard school experience myself (but didn't know you could be broken, so hobbled through), despite being extremely intelligent. I'll try to explain but I haven't got it crystallised in my mind yet.

This whole thread is about 'school readiness', as if 'school' is a defined thing. However, I've been a governor of primary and secondary special schools, and infant mainstream schools. I remember sitting with my Head Teacher as they motioned to huge folders that lined the walls, saying 'all our work for the last two years has been scrapped', because the Government changed their mind on what the curriculum should be. I remember sitting in an Ofsted inspection, being told that our school would be graded inadequate for teaching and learning, because all of our children had SEN, so couldn't have made good progress. The fact that my daughter had gone from 1:1 support at preschool, to being able to leave her classroom with the register, walk to reception, and return to the classroom without running away, was irrelevant.

The Frameworks changed 5 times while I was a Governor. Curriculum changes, changes of expectation. Ever focusing on theoretical knowledge rather than life application.

When my mother was at school, they had dining rooms and kitchens and household skills were taught. When I was at school, we had a Noah's ark in the corner of the classroom and we spent a whole term painting it (shoulder girdle muscles are important for handwriting skills) and we did projects on survival which incorporated writing and geography and science, and extended writing projects. Now it's split digraphs, etc.We had regular music lessons, all as a class.

School shouldn't be the main factor in a child's life. We shouldn't be worrying about being 'ready for school.' School should a part of being 'ready for life'. That's what's wrong.

DD1's school experience declined in year 7 when she was allocated the wrong type of special school. They had misjudged her ability and placed her too high. She needed the all round experience of a Learning Disability school, but was placed in a Moderate Learning Disability school, which is more akin to 'slow mainstream'. It destroyed her, she was hospitalised, and she is still in mental health crisis at 20.

DDs 2&3 also had terrible experiences in what would probably be regarded as a 'good school', for different reasons. One was ignored when she floundered. The other was badly bullied and got very ill as a result. I was still getting 'Oxbridge potential' emails 7 months after she had last been able to attend. They'd forgotten to take her off the list. Both girls are in special schools for kids with EBSD now.

My point is that schools aren't meeting the needs of society. It isn't the teachers' fault. It is the fault of the governments. The wrong focus has been set and a large proportion of children are failed. A system where, by design, 40% of children fail to leave with the qualifications that allow them to progress to the next stage of education is barmy.

We have cousins in Spain, they start primary later. They’re able to play for longer, be children for longer. The education system here is flawed.

Well, that was in response to a comment about the UK starting school earlier than countries in Europe so it's already being done. Plus the free hours nursery already in place. So no extra cost.

But honestly, your attitude is very short-sighted. Yes, it might be a kick in the teeth for the feckless to get for free what others struggle to pay for, but it will benefit you and all other tax payers in the future. What chance in life does someone have if their parents don't read/interact/potty-train them? If we don't intervene those kids will grow up unable to work and we'll be paying for them as adults. Early intervention is always cheaper in the long run.

In good primary schools, that's exactly what they do. Reception is still EYFS curriculum so nearly all play. In Spain, children have a lot more freedom and spend a lot more time outdoors. They are welcome in all public spaces until late at night. Parents take them with them wherever they go and people are not judgemental of seeing children playing in bars and restaurants at 10pm- or at least that was my experience of living in Andalusia.

In the UK we have a completely different culture and parents can't just go out and socialise and have the kids tag along, they have to specifically engineer opportunities for their children to mix with others and play outside.

Parents that can't or won't do this end up with ipad babies.

There's no benefit to starting school at 7 instead of 4 if that means 3 more years sitting on a sofa watching Cocomelon.

It will just widen the gap between those with good parents and those without, like Covid did.

Night dryness comes later. It is hormone based and can't be trained. My daughter was closer to six before she was out of them.

Not all that great. My nephew goes to nursery or whatever it is called. They have to be potty trained at two so whilst my nephew can attend my autistic three year wouldn't be able to. So not sure it is all that great.

They can't insist because children with SEN would then be excluded and so rightly it would be called discrimination.

I found the whole readiness thing bizarre because it was obvious speech delayed DS wasn’t going to tell me he needed the toilet and I gave it a go as we were in Covid quarantine for two weeks so thought we might as well and there was progress each day. This was at 2yr10m.

He was also lucky to go to brilliant nurseries that supported potty training but also did a lot around social and practical skills- sitting at the table together, using cutlery etc.

I never understand why people assume you need speech to be able to potty train. We train dogs and other non-verbal mammals all the time…

My son was also speech delayed and I didn’t let that hold us back. He was trained at 2 years and 4 months and it took about 2 weeks to completely trained

Current EYFS teacher. It’s true. Plus the emphasis is on us doing more to get the children ‘Year 1 ready’ whilst they come in more below on average than they did at the start of my teaching career, but yet expect us to achieve higher percentages than ever before. And what’s more is, Ofsted are not effectively looking at how schools do this…putting more pressure on EYFS! 😭

Spain has a completely different climate - that matters.

Yes it does. I miss wanting to be outside and the energy the sun gave me. Not to mention to how much easier it was to eat well. Hard to want to eat salad and fruit when it's -3C outside and all the produce tastes like water.

I kind of think being able to communicate in some way does make it easier to be honest. I say my son has a speech delay but actually he is almost non verbal. We are only just starting to get words for his words at nearly four. Starting earlier wouldn't have worked.

It might make it easier, but it doesn't mean they're not ready. Speaking is hard, not just forming the words but knowing the words, listening to the person you're talking to and responding with the 'right' words. It's really a difficult thing. Humans are the only species that can do it to a complex level. But loads of animals can learn to go to the toilet in a certain place/at a certain time. It takes a lot less cognition than speaking.

My DD was non-verbal till 5. And still only single words at 7. She started school nursery in nappies but was potty trained before starting reception. She had a card to show the teacher/adult she needed the toilet. She still had accidents but that's ok. Teachers are fine about helping kids that need a bit more help. It's the parents that do their child a disservice by not even attempting the basics of parenting they resent.