School Readiness

[MissLead]

So on the news this morning it was reported that 37% of kids going to school in UK are not deemed ‘ready’ often lacking basic speech and not being toilet trained.

Assuming these kids have no medical conditions - there must be some bloody lazy parents out there!!

Right? Toilet training really isnt correlated to how much money you earn.

I think it’s wrong for people to make excuses. As the OP said - this is outside medical reasons. Toilet train your kid and crack a book - it’s brilliant that even poor people can get books at a library!

I think these issues are sometimes first world problems. People are aware they can rely on school, social services, parent/child clubs etc; so they just don't need to bother. Schools also cannot refuse children, so they can sort it out.

These issues are not as prevalent in developing nations where people have no choice but to get on with parenting their children, or leave them to suffer the harsh consequences of 'being left behind'.

Parents do not have the resources for endless years of pullups, so they potty train so they're not washing constantly or wasting precious money on nappies. They have to work and the children have to learn some degree of self-sufficiency, so they learn basic skills early. They also have higher expectations of children, so involve them in household chores / tasks, so again, the children advance at a higher rate.

Why are we failing our children so spectacularly here?

These aren’t abnormal expenses of having a healthy child.

My 3 ASD kids all potty trained by 3. It takes effort and persistence.

Well good for you. My three year old with ASD isn't ready yet.

In what way is he not ready?

Do you not claim DLA for your children then?

All children are different. All of the effort and persistence in the world isn't going to make a difference for some disabled children.

Interested to know why too?

I used to teach Reception and am a SENCO. I see both sides. Yes there are more who aren’t ready. But I’ve got my own toddler and toilet training is going frustratingly slowly because I’m at work all the time and nursery think we’re doing it too early and won’t help much. It’s also easier to do stuff for him when you’re rushing about trying to get somewhere. It’s quicker to stick him in a buggy than get him to walk. It’s easier to spoonfeed him and not have to clean up as much. I persevere with everything because I don’t want him to be one of that % who aren’t ready, but I can DEFINITELY see how it happens.

Of course not. I have no big expenses. AFRID in 2 of the three, but that’s just food.

Plenty do which is why DLA exists in the first place.

I work in a pre-school. There are kids that come in in nappies, we change into underwear, they are dry all day then their parents put nappies on them at home at night, weekends, school hols etc.

Children who can’t put their own coats and shoes on because their parents do everything for them.

Children who are rude and disrespectful to adults in the setting.

Honestly the mind boggles. The job is not what it used to be.

Some children try to swipe a book

If there is money in the household for a phone or iPad there is money for a few books from the charity shop - because the iPad will be linked to the internet

so it’s not always poverty it’s neglect

Given that most children attend a nursery full time, for most of the time they are awake, maybe we should be blaming nurseries as much as parents?

Nurserys can't toilet train without a parents permission, nice try though.

Have you had kids in nursery recently? Nurseries are generally really good with encouraging potty training.

Most children don't attend full time nursery. Most attend for the funded hours (which is not full time) between the ages of 3-4.

Regardless, parents should be parenting their children not nurseries (although IME as a parent who did send their child to nursery, they are incredibly helpful and supportive).

DGC's nursery were particularly unhelpful

This is definitely the latest thing for the media to sink its teeth into, and MN as well.

Potty training used to have a more child led approach and the shift has started back towards a quite draconian outlook on it. I’ve seen Oh Crap recommended on here so, so many times and I’m sure it works for some but while the method itself is fine, I don’t know why more people haven’t looked into the author a bit more closely. I joined the Facebook group when I was training my son. Apart from the fact the book is thoroughly nasty and aggressive in its tone, this was on the Facebook group.

The author, who as far as I know has no medical background, is promoting the use of suppositories as a regular thing. There are parents on that group at the end of their tether because they've been trying for months and months to train, are cleaning up multiple accidents a day, are basically saying they no longer enjoy parenting their child, are stressed to the hilt- and are being told on no account to "give up" and put a nappy back on the child.

I can’t believe this woman is being held up and heralded on here.

I know that’s an Oh Crap rant but when I was struggling to train my DS, I really noticed how unkind and unsympathetic so many MNetters are and were to any child over the age of three who was still in nappies.

I don’t doubt many children are not ‘school ready.’ Some will be living in poverty, with parents in dire need of nonexistent support. Some will have special needs, diagnosed or otherwise, and also be in need of nonexistent support. And there will be crossover between the two. But it’s easier to finger point and blame rather than admit to huge societal failures, I guess.

I struggle to imagine how toilet training could be more "child led" than it currently is, when the attitude of so many parents seems to be to just let them decide when they're ready.

50 years ago, the average age of toilet training was 18 months, now it's 3.5.

There's also large parts of the world where children NEVER wear nappies and are trained from birth.

There's no need for children over 3 to be in nappies, except for a tiny percentage of SEN children and children with medical incontinence.

We need to start separating the kids that can from the kids that can’t. The kids that can hit all the school ready milestones, can behave, can sit quietly and listen from those who can’t. Instead of school, those who can’t should attend an intensively staffed centre to either get them up to speed with the aim of reintegrating them back into mainstream schooling or to move them to a permanent more specialist provision. The current situation is failing everyone.

I am always minded of my mother. A crack and heroin addict single parent, who lived in vans and squats and had suffered abuse that's more typical of warzones than an abusive relationship. We had so little money that sometimes I was literally starving. We didn't have electric. Usually we didn't even have access to running water. This was desperation poverty like I have never seen in my place of work - a school the DofE came to visit to see what deprivation looks like...

Generally a bull shit parent in every sense. Selfish, self centered, literally fed me heroin to keep me quiet and compliant.

She still potty trained me and taught me to dress myself and feed myself. She actually also taught me to read when my primary school couldn't work me out. If a parent as shit as her can get the basics sorted, then frankly I just don't understand it. Life is hard, but even when it is, you still have to teach your kids the basics of life.

Not all children will neatly fit into two boxes of can and can't, especially at only 4.

It would also have to mean specialist provision is actually available which is part of the current problem. Where would these specialist provision places magically come from?

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing with my DD @FerriswheelsKissesandLilacs .

Because if I make her do it before she’s ready, what happens is misery, humiliation, stress, anxiety, tears and anger.

And I know, because that’s exactly what happened with my DS. He’s recently reliably trained, and he’s five. Five, that’s right. He’s probably have trained years ago but I read nasty posts like yours on here and they filled me with anxiety about my inadequacies as a parent and so I pushed him into training when he was not ready.

He is nearly non verbal and has no awareness yet of his soiled nappies. He is four next month.

The funding needs prioritising. Educating the next generation is the best investment that can be made in the future.