School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

TOIL needs to be agreed in advance but your boss seems pretty decent & flexible. I’m not surprised she said no. Seems a bit all take and no give on your side.

Hmmm. Its not clear what the set up currently is - are you taking more than your permitted breaks to pick kid up from school? Eg you're taking a 30min lunch break plus one hour to do school run? In which case every day adds up over an extended period to way more than your 4hrs toil.

Sp I guess what your new manager is saying is - you can't have it both ways. Either you stick to the rules and do your hours, then log TOIL when you do it, or you get the extra flexibility to work fewer hours and take breaks when it suits you, but then you have to accept you can't also ask for extra time off when you do a few additional hours.

The time you take for the school run, do you make those hours up at the end of the day ?

So when you put the TOIL request in did you knock off all the time you spent on school runs that you've been paid for as part of this flexible arrangement?

So you’re happy to daily do the school run on work time, and be paid, but claiming back from work when you work outside work times as a one off?

And agree with the previous poster about agreeing toil in advance -.you can't just do the extra hours and then claim it without managers permission (in my office that's standard).

What does your contract say?

But the school run is taking half an hour, and then you take another half hour seperately, adding up to the one hour lunch you're entitled to each day? So you should get pay or toil for those extra hours I'd hope? You've not taken them elsewhere?

Yeah, I 'm with her on that. Unofficial flexibility is very much a two way street. If you start counting the minutes, expect your manager to do the same really. You can certainly go for that set up, but I find in general the unofficial flexibility is usually better overall.

I’m team boss. Yes it seems fairly relaxed and flexible however from what you’ve said you are wanting your cake and eat it.

Why are you rolling your eyes at the fact you had to take your lunch break to do the school run? Why would you not have to do that in a break?

The way I have read it is that the lunch hour is cut down and she is taking 30 mins lunch rather than 1 hour to cover the school runs, not taking time out of the work day on top of?

Agree with checking your timings and contract. Sounds like you get an hour for lunch, which they are saying you can take as 30 mins for lunch allowing 30 mins for the school run. Realistically is that how long it takes? Does it mean you are unavailable when you should be working? Also if they are letting you do the school run, then this means you have your child home when you should be working. Maybe they feel your workload should be possible to complete within the normal hours and that maybe time out for the school run and potentially then dealing with your child is what makes the day take longer.

As per usual, first post nails it.

you should have agreed beforehand or discussed it with your manager about the extra hours. My employer won’t pay for overtime unless it’s specifically agreed beforehand and there’s a reason for it. If you can’t finish your work in the hours you are doing, then you also need to discuss your workload not just start claiming for it.

I wondered about that - of course you should, we don't all get time off to run errands!

Go back to her and say you’re so sorry you’ve not been clear, that you don’t take longer in the school day off than your permitted breaks. Lay it on THICK, say so sorry she’s been thinking all along you were taking extra time etc etc, that you never would.

and then state you will of course take your 4 hours toil at this time.

Yeah, I get it. You want all the fake with no give.

No. Either have a job with set hours that you abide by 100% or don’t.

Our lunch break is one hour but because I do the school run, she lets me just go and do this and then i can take 30mins aswell or eat my desk etc.

You’re very lucky that she has accommodated you so far. Don’t push your luck!

Great so you can do the school run and eat your lunch all within the hour then? Still doesn't explain the eye rolling from the former boss though which I think is what both I am the earlier poster were wondering about? Did you not get time to do both back then?

The school run is 50mins -one hour.

The way to deal with it is to make sure you keep a full record of how you are spending your time, so you can evidence that the two school runs a day are taking no more than 30 minutes, and any extra time taken os made up on the day.

Personally, I think you are onto a pretty good deal, not sure I would upset that for 4 hours.

I think you need to discuss with your boss. As others have said, TOIL normally needs to be approved in advance - it is not something you just choose to do. You say the work needed doing, but did it need doing right then? Would your boss have preferred that you prioritised your work differently so that you didn’t need to work extra hours?

Aside from that, I agree that it’s give and take. As a working parent you really will be better off in a situation where no-one is counting the minutes. I am not sure what you mean about having to use your lunch break to cover the school run in your previous role - did you expect to just do it in paid work time? And your comment about your WFH days now being “pretty chill” suggests that you may not be doing as much work as you would be doing if in the office.

Give an inch and someone takes a mile…

You take 50 minutes for the school run, and 30 minutes for lunch? Leaving you with a daily 20 minute deficit .. is that right ?

A flexible approach has to be both ways, I would be rolling my eyes if an employee expected overtime/toil when you had allowed extra time off