School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

Agree with manager in this case.

I think in most roles youre expected to go a bit above and beyond at times, and you've already got lots of flexibility.

If it came to me working a large number of hours above expected then I might request TOIL.

Oof that’s so cheeky OP!!! You get flexibility of school runs and not making time up and then you put in a TOIL! You’ve got some balls!!! (And unfortunately give the rest of us working mums a bad name for taking the piss and likely to have the privilege removed for everyone!)

Rage Bait ??

And there is your toil claim - mystery solved.

Royally taking the piss.

So you get 80-90mins a day as paid break time [instead of 1hr for lunch] split between school run and your lunch? That is beyond generous.

The 4hours overtime you’ve done should really been done free as a gesture of good will because you are getting 2-2.5hrs a week off work paid - that’s day a month? So 9-10 days extra paid leave that your colleagues are not? And you asked for TOIL?

Wow… and we wonder why employers are reluctant to hire mothers/parents or to offer flexible working arrangements. Am actually quite shocked that you thought you could, morally, even ask for that time.

Flexibility works both ways. They give you flexibility by letting you do the school run, you should then be flexible working the odd extra hours to support business demand. Thats how it works where i am

I used to have a staff member who we were similarly flexible and helpful with. School runs, helping husbands business with a post office run etc.
Then she started putting in toil for every 15 mins of extra work, and then huge TOIL for a couple of international trips where I claimed nothing. She claimed sitting in Florence having an evening meal on the company was still work time as she was out with a couple of colleagues.....
Then it emerged that on work from home days the flexibility to do school run was including things like a coffee shop with other mums in the morning before work started on a regular basis.

I shut down all the flexibility pretty firmly.

She ended up finding a different job.

Time to work with your employer and negotiate a fair agreement.

I don’t believe in going “above and beyond” and wouldn’t work a minute I wasn’t paid for but you absolutely have to cover your time!

Have you been working in a 20 minute per day deficit since August and still tried to claim back TOIL??

If your employee is super flexible as yours is regarding time off to do the school run then I would absolutely expect some give and take.

I think it's unreasonable to expect to get paid extra unless of course there has been an arrangement in your contract for TOIL for working extra hours.

You are already being paid for 4 hours time off per fortnight.

Oh OP you are really, really in the wrong here and your manager is probably thinking you are an extremely CF
You are being allowed extra time, every day, to do the school run. 20-30 minutes a day. So of course you should expect to pick up the slack sometimes and put in some extra hours (which actually aren't 'extra' - you are making up for the many many hours you have ended up taking off for the school run and not working back.) Count your lucky stars you have such a good boss and hope she doesnt recind her kind flexibility

So, you’re having an 80 or 90 minute break every day (instead of 60 minutes)? And you want to claim TOIL as well for some ‘extra’ time you put in?

Sounds like you are doing all the taking (2-2.5 hours every week). I certainly wouldn’t have the gall to claim TOIL in these circumstances.

Oof
YABU obviously.
I am a parent, and I am a manager. This means I do offer a level of flexibility to all my team (not just parents).
If one of them started asking for TOIL (not pre approved at that) I'd be back to clock watching and contracted hours, with unpaid leave for childcare.
Tread carefully here. Companies that offer flexibility are like hens teeth, don't be so cocky as to think you're irreplaceable or can walk into a similarly flexible role elsewhere..

I think the goodwill of your boss will be noticeably less going forward OP…

In that case you have a damned cheek to claim TOIL - you're getting 20-30 mins paid time every day for the school run. My kids are older so I work my hours and it boils my puss that colleagues get paid 30+ minutes every day for the school run, and don't get me started on WFH when kids are at home!

I’m super confused too. How does it work that you have 1.5 hours off every day for yourself? Do you work extra in the evening?

My DH’s company used to offer a 9 day fortnight - every other Friday off if they worked until 6pm (ie about 45-60mins extra a day to ensure the 36hour week was fulfilled). Only what happened is that people started to ‘WFH’ on the alternate Fridays and often still slunk out of the office (to pick up the kids) at 5pm. He’s have calls with colleagues on a WFH day and they would very clearly be in the hair dresser or having coffee with friends. Ie. They were doing 4 days/28hr weeks. The company stopped it.

They’re having similar issues getting people back in the office after covid and have now made it clear that non attendance in the office will impact annual bonuses and impact annual appraisals and HR ranking when redundancies are being considered.

Congratulations! “Cheeky fucker of the week” prize is yours.

I feel,sorry for your child free colleagues having to put up with you massively taking the piss with your one hour school run … whilst they are working.

Oh!

hang on … is this a reverse?

No one is this piss taking and unaware … are they?

YABVU

Your boss sounds really reasonable OP - and I hope that they give the same amount of flexibility to their whole team (regardless of the reason why they need it). You get an extra 2.5hrs/ week of paid leave/ breaks - when you add that up across the year (assuming you get about 6 weeks leave) it’s around 115 hours - or about 15 days extra leave (assuming 7.5hr days). Plus you’re also not having to pay for childcare for pick ups/ after school either by the sounds of it You are getting a lot more back than you are losing. If I was you I wouldn’t be mentioning TOIL or formal recording of hours - if your manager brings that in you are set to loose more than you will gain.

You say it’s a step up. Most professional roles expect that you work over hours to get the job done and in return are treated like an adult with a degree of flexibility. I would get laughed out the room if I requested TOIL. Even when I literally got stuck in another country for a whole weekend, with work due to delayed flights- I only got the morning to recoup.

You seem to have a very sweet deal and an accommodating boss. It's a bit cheeky to push it.

You also cannot convince me that you get home at 4pm or whenever with your child and do another solid hour of good quality work without be distracted / interacting with your child / getting them snacks / have slightly checked out of the working day etc.