School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

YABVU

You’re making 20 mins a day and then want 4 hours TOIL!

🤣🤣🤣

YABU for trying to claim TOIL if you are not even doing your full contracted hours

I’m afraid that the further up the food chain you get, the more is expected of you. I have so much flexibility at work, I nip out for appointments or an emergency school pick up (we have wraparound care so it would only be in an emergency), I went to DS’s school nativity during work hours etc but as head of my department I take early/late meetings, answer emails and calls out of hours, I’ll work in an evening or weekend if needs be. I haven’t claimed overtime in years but I’m certainly in a lot of credit so it’s no issue if I need to finish early now and again etc.

sounds like your manager has been very trusting and accommodating so yeah, I would chalk this one up to inexperience.

Sorry but you are massively taking the piss.

So since August you have had 20-30 mins extra break a day.. so call in 20 weeks comes to approximately 25 hours paid time off to do the school run. And you think working an additional 4 hours in lieu and expecting that time back is fair...

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the flexibility is rescinded.

So you expect to take your lunch and then time off to do the school run too? You are one CF if that is the case

Then YABU. Your manager is right, give and take. You take an extra 20-30 mins a day, but are quibbling over an extra 4 hours you did one week?

also take 30 mins lunch

So you were taking more time than you were entitled to, and got grabby asking for your "extra 4 hours" last week? Are you for real?

Once you get to a certain level many companies will expect you to work a professional way with give and take.

Normally it works out more give to the company to make sure things complete on time.... But this should reflect in bonus or pay rise and flexibility when needed.

If you go to HR it will be honoured to your contract, but kiss any promotion goodbye - and look forward to rigid obedience to contract from your manager too.

So let's get this clear, you are taking 50-60 mins a day AND a 30 min lunch break? Every day?
Are you making up the extra 20-30 mins a day?
And you are "pretty chill" on your wfh days (which I guess means it's ok to do domestic stuff during the working day)?

Seems like you are on to a good thing here and you need to be flexible about doing a bit extra occasionally .

Your boss is spot on. You are a proper CF taking an extra 30 minutes break every working day and then claiming for 4 hours overtime!

Well there it is.

She's giving you that 50 minutes PLUS 30 minutes to actually eat your lunch.

Day in and day out.

And you pushed back on doing some extra work for TOIL? Are you nuts?

@Mumguilt25 kindly, you need to give your head a wobble.
You've got it made. Your manager couldn't be more accommodating and I would have no doubt at all that you do actually 'owe' a few hours a week with your bespoke arrangement.
Most working mothers don't get this level if concession, so suggest you suck up a few ours extra since I very much doubt it really constitutes TOIL if you did the sums honestly.

You need to clarify this with your manager as neither of you should be losing out on a flexible arrangement. Record all the time you take accurately. If you are in a deficit you need to knock that off any additional time worked.

This
You are taking the p* OP
In my extensive work experience, there is always someone who does this.

Me too….just wow !!!

I had a job that was flexible.

If I had an appointment or needed to do the school run it was great because I could do so - but it meant making those hours.
They weren’t going to pay me to do the school run - if that was the case they’d just reduce my hours.

What it also meant was that some weeks I would do extra hours unpaid but then I could also have that flexibility and some days were quiet, so it was definitely give and take.

I do think you were cheeky to ask for 4 hours extra - you admit you take more than this by just doing the school run.
If it was more than what you are taking for the school run then I would have asked for the difference.

I found that wfh and flexible is not all it’s cracked up to be (I think it works better if you’re SE).

I thought I’d hit the jackpot at first until I realised I was expected to give more than I was taking.
I am now back to working a very rigid role, which has downsides but also the predictability and rights that go along with it and I honestly prefer it.

As you have a little one, it may be worth carrying on and ‘giving’ a bit more but still keep track of your hours and if it becomes a regular thing then you can reevaluate.

Dp does the school run while working from home once a week and he takes his full hour lunch break at 3pm to do it. Expecting a 30 min lunch and another hour is taking the piss, let alone toil as well

You don’t want to encourage them to count your hours … you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Slightly curious … if you do the school run at lunch, where do the kids go once school has ended then? Are they dropped off somewhere?

I have a lot of colleagues like OP. They really the value the flexibility of the job.

But only when it benefits them. Take time out for school runs and domestic chores and personal appointment as they feel like it.
If they are needed to work the odd extra hour it's suddenly impossible, and unreasonable.

OP - your job sounds great. You are obviously at a level where you are trusted to do what needs doing to get the job done. Up to you whether you want to behave like a trusted employee or one who is going to be awkward.

So basically you get well over an hour a day ‘off’ so do you make that extra time up at all, start earlier? If not then you are being a real CF to expect 4 hours in toil

Personally if I was your manager I would stop the30 mins and tell you to collect your child in your lunch hour and eat your lunch on the way

Sounds a bit like you are taking advantage then if you are technically taking 30 mins off everyday you do the school run (roughly 3 x a week) then want too claim 4 hours TOIL on an odd 1 off occasion.

You also mention this position is a step up? Is it more of management level position because if so, then often part of that is being paid to get a job done (hence manager giving you the school run flexibility) rather than per hour although of course you typically have contracted hours and there is a limit to the unpaid overtime but sounds like of you hadn't done the school run for 2 or 3 weeks you would have got the work done is usual contracted hours.

My employer is flexible but I never do uncompensated work, ever. I appreciate the flexibility but I always make up my hours and I'm also flexible enough myself to work outside normal office hours when needed. That doesn't and shouldn't equate to working uncompensated. That would be taking the employer taking the piss every bit as much as an employee taking paid time away and then claiming toil.

So you get a free half hour off everyday day, if you do an hour school run and take half an hour for lunch? Or do you make it up?

I get in early and start work regularly 30mins before. I often work through my lunch and sometimes stay late. I also go early if work is done or take an extended lunch. It’s give or take. I’d never put in OT or TOIL for this reason, I really value that flexibility. Your employer sounds brilliant why would you even consider putting in TOIL? Sadly you can’t have your cake and eat it these days

So you get 30 minutes lunch plus 1 hour for school run?
You put a TOIL request in for 4 hours
If you do school run everyday that's 1 hour a day for 5 days - that's 5 hours a week you owe them, so the 4 hours extra you did doesn't even cover the time you owe them in a week.
Don't be surprised if they stop you taking the hour for school run now they know that you will utterly take the piss.
Be ready to pay for after school care or find a new job!