School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

YABU I'm afraid OP. If you're taking 90 mins instead of 60 3 days pw (at least, given DD might also distract you on WFH days) that's at least 90 mins a week you owe back. That's very lucky that you get that flexibility already, I would expect you to make it up by working longer days on your office days. If you don't then I would expect you to be the first to volunteer to do 'overtime' and not ask for any TOIL for it.

You need to apologise to your manager, withdraw your stupid TOIL request and keep your head down, thanking God you have such a flexible and understanding boss.
You sound extremely naive and ill-informed about working practices.

Maybe if you worked all of the hours you've been paid for, you would have got the work completed on time and and wouldn't have needed the 4 hours overtime?

You have 1 1/2 hours unpaid per week, that's 78 hours per year or TWO WHOLE WEEKS per year, and you're moaning about 4 hours?

By all means, make if clearer but don't be surprised if your extra 30 minutes is removed or you're told that you can't be parenting while also working.

Apologies @ForZanyAquaViewer . I used your quote because I agreed with it and was following on from your point but you’re right, I should probably have used one of the OPs quotes

I imagine your manager will be making a few things clearer to you in terms of expectations going forward.

It would be better if you took 30 mins lunch and school run 50-60 minutes on your WFH days and 30 min lunch on your office days. Then you'd only be in a 30 minute deficit across the week. In fact, if you added that 30 minutes on to one of your WFH days, you wouldn't be in deficit at all.

You are having extra time off for the school run 3 days a week on top of lunch, school concerts, medical appointments and also have a child at home after the school run when you’re working (no matter how self sufficient they are, an 8yo will need some input before 5pm). Your manager is correct, there’s plenty of give on her part, you can’t just take. You are not owed TOIL.

It sounds very much like the OP was not quite ready for the step up she has apparently just made.

Or at least, was ready for the pay increase but not any increase in workload or maturity/responsibility.

@Lougle
i agree 30 min lunch all week. Your then showing your flexible, give and take. Your taking on the three school run days but your evening up your hours by giving back by shortening your lunch.
At the moment your all take and as others have said your manager might now take the flexibility off you for taking the piss .

This isnt OPs first job though, she compares it to one where she had to use her own time for the school run. She knew what TOIL was to request it.

And with all generosity, maybe thats true but her manager explained they dont do TOIL and multiple people here have pointed out TOIL needs to be agreed in advance and the discrepancy between all the weeks she underworks. It may be true that she didnt understand when she asked but she should from the conversation with her manager and the points for posters here

Honestly, I would advise against "making it clearer to your manager" unless you want to revert to ways of working like your old place.

Your manager has been clear everyone works X hours with a 60 min lunch everyday. She is prepared to give you 3 WAH days where in exchange for a 30 min lunch she will let you do the 50-60min school run on company time, without record keeping or monitoring. And you've mentioned the WAH days are very "chill" suggesting to me generally low pressure and the potential for more personal time (feeding DC, setting up homework, more than 30mins for lunch).

Additionally she will provide time not only for medical appointments but nativities and school activities

In exchange TOIL will not be agreed for 2 nights you stayed late when there was a deadline.

Shes very clear. Very flexible. And you are likely in a probation period if you only started in Aug. You risk your flexibility. You risk failing any probation. Feel frustrated and entitled if you like but i'd caution you on complaining in the workplace about it

Can you imagine if your child’s teacher wasn’t there at the end of each day because she had to nip off every afternoon to do the school run?

Employers have to consider it but there are many jobs where taking that time would just be impractical.

Yes I brought that up earlier. No judgement on having a child young but it means that the op has missed out on a level of experience in work place politics.

Perhaps if you hadn’t taken more than the lunch hour to include the school run as well as the 30 mins minimum break, you’d have had time to complete the work inside the standard working week?

Absolutely excellent advice from @Laura95167 but the OP has disappeared, after being rude to helpful posters.

Passing probation might be an issue for @Mumguilt25

This is the best advice you’ll get @Mumguilt25

I changed jobs within the same company that I have been with for over 10 years quite recently.

When I met my new line manager I had a open conversation about his expectations, despite being already well aware of the ethos and policies within the company, I knew there was an amount of "manager's discretion". I didn't want to inadvertently assume anything.

I suggest it would be worth you having a similar conversation focussing on expectations for flexible working (what is ok, what is too much), making it clear that you are looking after a child while working and checking this is not an issue, and understanding how much work out of normal hours is expected and when this can be claimed back (either as overtime or toil) and when it is part of normal give and take.
Every manager is slightly different. Your sounds really good - don't ruin the relationship!

Make what clearer?

That she feels entitled to be paid by her employers to parent her DC ?

This

If your child is young enough to need picking up from school, they are too young to be at home whilst you’re working without alternative childcare. There is no way you’ll be as productive whilst getting snacks, drinks, making sure they don’t do anything stupid.

I know! I used my lunch break for the school run for years (even pre pandemic). I never took an extra lunch break as well, I knew I was so lucky to have the flexibility

Your being extremely silly op trying to claim toil op when work is letting you do school runs on company time and giving you other flexibility ie letting you do loads personal things and not insisting you take it as unpaid leave. At this rate they will make sure your in the office 5 days a week
It's taking the piss