School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

When I was OP's age, the options for picking your child up from school during the working day were to pay for childcare or to work part time. Plus, being a woman in a male dominated industry, I had to prove beyond doubt that having children was not a detriment to my ability to do the job (in the way that men clearly didn't).

Whilst I think it's great that (some) employers are now more flexible, and that women are less discriminated against because they have children, I do think the pendulum may have swung too far the other way. OP is only 25, and can't be at a super high professional level, but she's taking it as a right that she can have time off to pick up her child and organise her work life round her home life as suits here. I see a similar pattern in my own workplace, so I don't think OP is unique, and sadly this is likely to mean that flexibility gets decreased again as employees show that they will abuse it.

Yes and your employer has been more than supportive and now you’re taking the piss. I would seriously start back peddling. You’re cutting off your nose here.

Totally.

If I had someone as entitled and lazy as OP on my books for 4 months, they'd be out of there at probationary review. Saves bothering with meetings and other red tape. End of probation review is the gift of the one stop goodbye so to speak.

I have indeed had the benefit of people akin to OP thankfully exposing their true colours within the first 6 months and they don't remain employed.

This boss sounds incredibly reasonable already, so perhaps she'll extend probation with certain criteria OP has to meet in order to pass it and continue her employment. Or, quite frankly, OP needs to prepare for being sacked.

Entirely depends on the role as well. Lower qualified, low paid role? You'll get away with more because they honestly don't expect too much, anticipate some degree of poor performance and they can pretty much replace you with anyone. In a professional environment? With higher pay and competition for the role? Nope, you're out of there.

It's a sorry state of affairs when people can't compute they have to actually do the hours they signed their contract to do. The audacity to be expected to work from home instead of treat it as consistent weekly paid holiday.

I think it comes down to whether OP is reducing her lunchbreak on other days to cover the time taken for school run. If so, then she's still working as much as the rest of the team. Flexibility is nice but it's a different issue from being expected to work extra unpaid hours.

That said, when I had an office role there was a bit in my contract about working extra hours when business needs required it - usually around bid submission deadlines. I'm much happier on hourly pay now. I get £32 p/h for any additional hours worked outside of my contractual hours.

Doh, should've read the full thread....

If you're using your entire lunchbreak to cover the school run and then also taking an additional 30 mins it's a bit cheeky to moan about giving back a few extra hours.

Told by whom? Kylie Jenner?

Absolutely this.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the manager requests OP works from the office 5 days a week, to make sure she actually works the hours she is supposed to, without school runs and a primary aged child with no childcare to distract her.

Probably unlikely to authorise any TOIL either.

My employer is very supportive of childcare. I am contracted to finish in time for him finishing school so I can pick up.

I don’t expect to be paid for time I don’t work and then claim back time!

By whom?

They don’t let you work whilst caring for children! How can you do your job or look after a child at the same time? Something has to suffer… you’re taking the piss. This is why folk think wfh is a con because people abuse it.

Absolutely. It's one thing working from home with a child in an emergency - such as they get sent home from school sick.

Doing it routinely, when there is clearly the option of after school clubs available, is another thing entirely and definitely wouldn't be tolerated at my work

They don’t have to do anything. I sorted out childcare in my own time and at my own expense. I was luckier than some as they were flexible for child sickness etc.
I am now in a position to have staff, some with children - I remember those years and how difficult they are, and try to be flexible when needed. But I’m not a pushover and would not appreciate your behaviour. It’s all about mutual respect.

I’ve been supportive of arrangements for school drop off, child sickness etc but have on a couple of occasions had to remind the mother working for me that I would expect the father to also be making arrangements with his employer to take time off for sickness and school drop off.
When DT’s were little DH and I had to either cover these in our own time or in the case of school drop off, use breakfast and after school clubs which didn’t impact our working hours.

What needs to be made clearer? You take an extra 1.5hrs a week off for school run every week and dont make up the time but want to take hours back when you work extra. Plus have no childcare for an 8 yo after school. You need to give rather than all take. Simple as that. Your employer sounds great.

We expect those with primary age children to make childcare arrangements whilst they are working from home. It’s not permitted to work from home whilst supervising children.

Wtf have I just read. Outrageous to try claim for TOIL. I don't work from home but I do unpaid overtime then occasionally leave early to pick the kids up. I record every single thing in an excel sheet so there's no drama. Manager has access.

It’s 4 hours, it wouldn’t even cross my mind to do anything about that 😂

I think “her” in the post you’ve quoted OP refers to you and not your manager?

Just remember that lack of flexibility works both ways

This thread has got to be a wind up surely. I used to manage a team of around 30 and tried to be as flexible as possible. However it works both ways. The people who were flexible with me and happy to work to meet service demands enjoyed flexibility when they needed it. Others who insisted every day at starting and finishing exactly on the dot regardless of anything, didn't. You must be able to see you're taking the piss OP, your manager sounds totally reasonable

If you had been taking half hour lunch and then half hour school pick up then I'd understand your request but you are getting an extra half hour lunch break you are being paid for that no one else gets.
Complete CF and can't believe you think otherwise.

There is still time.to request this be deleted because you have embarrassed yourself even posting it.

I used to do pick up in lunch break too but it took less than half hour there and back and I used my lunch break for it as I would have thought of no other reasonable (and fair to my colleagues) way to do it.. 50 mins seems insane anyway but that's not your works problem and I'm surprised they're even being as good as they are given they are far from obligated to... Just use your lunch break like anyone else with any respect would then you'll get your TOIL.