All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

Sounds very complicated and you sound very thoughtful. Can you just ask everyone altogether either in person or on the family WhatsApp?

Well, I’m not sure whether this is a genuine post. If it is, it’s quite simple really. The answer to your question is in your title, being ‘Christmas’. You are a christian and this is a celebration of the birth of Christ so this is how you should celebrate. Those who love you will respect this.

I’ve asked everyone what their personal wants are, such as DD1 not wanting gifts, DD2 being fine with gifts but not wanting to discuss the religious elements etc. it’s more melding it all together so everyone feels respected without the grandchildren who are still too young I feel to understand why their cousin is getting new toys and they aren’t or why some people are praying or going to church and they aren’t, or why Father Christmas visited some of them but not others etc, feeling too confused, hurt or left out.

Your children know how you do Christmas as they grew up in your house. I would do it as you always do it.

As for gifts - I think there will be upset from such small children. Maybe ask your children what their plan is to manage it.

If I went to a Jewish or Muslims house for a celebration I would expect to fit in with them. Surely them coming to yours for Christmas means you just do it your way.

I think you’re making this unnecessarily complicated. Muslim parents and others who don’t celebrate Christmas are used to dealing with the ‘no presents’ issue. Just let them handle it. And unless you’re banging on about the birth of Jesus all day, I can’t see why you’d have to tell your grandchildren that ‘some people believe X’?

I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be genuine?

Of course we will still be celebrating as Christians but a big part of that for me is being with my family. I’m happy to make adjustments if it means we can all be together.

I think you need to take a breath and work out what is your responsibility and what is the relevant parents' responsibility.

The possible upset of one child over gifts not being received is the responsibility of their parents. Ask the parents how they want to deal with it.

As for discussing religion, do you usually discuss it a lot? If you for example do a prayer, just say something like 'this is when I do my prayer, anyone else please feel free to say a different one too'.

I think the 4 year old is old enough to be very upset when all her cousins get presents and she doesn’t.

Have you pointed out to your elder daughter that her children will be watching others open gifts? Could you perhaps get her to agree to Winter/Happy Holidays/ New Year gifts in non-Christmas wrapping, so perhaps snow flakes rather than Christmas trees etc, and on the label you just write to X, love from not Happy Christmas etc. presumably they will always spend Eid with his side of the family, so they will get Eid presents then?

Your youngest daughter’s approach sounds very sensible to me. Could you ask her to have a word with her sister?

I agree that you sound very considerate to be giving this so much thought, so your children and grandchildren are very lucky to have you. I would definitely ask your children how they would like you to play the gifts.

And even though this is the first one so it feels like a big deal, they are all very small still and almost certainly won't remember specifics of this Xmas, so you can use it as a bit of a trial run. If the children who won't be receiving gifts (if their parents stick with this plan/request after you check with them and let them know all the others will) get very upset then maybe next year they will change their minds and let them have some gifts. It does seem unfair to me, and I hope they change their minds.

I have asked if we can do something small just to make sure she doesn’t feel left out and I’ve been told no.

Getting DD2 to talk to DD1 would be nothing short of a Christmas miracle! They don’t really get on very well at all, but they never have done.

I think you might have to go down the route of “we believe this but others don’t” as it’s the truth and also easiest for children to understand. At those ages they may not be questioning yet as they tend to just accept things as they are, so it might not be the problem you’re imagining!

Also when they start school this is how all religions will be presented (unless at.a faith school but even then the other religions will be presented in this way) so it will be consistent with messages they may be getting elsewhere (my son is 3 but already aware of different religions / celebrations because of nursery).

I grew up with no religion but always knew that Christmas was the celebration of Jesus’ birth just as I knew Diwali was the celebration of light and Passover was the celebration of the Exodus etc. but as the UK is historically a Christian country many people also culturally celebrate the key Christian festivals.

Agree with all of this. Your children know how you “do” Christmas as they were brought up with it. Quite remarkable that two of your children have fully converted to other faiths though and have become so “devout”.

It's lovely that you accept each family finding their own way. I guess you just muddle through as best you can. Ultimately it's just belief systems, sit on the fence if you get a tricky question, or allow their parents to answer them.

Anyone who is joining you for Christmas day needs to slot in with how you celebrate tbh. You are the host, and you shouldn’t be so worried about offending people or giving your grandkids a present.

Instead of bowing down to everyone else, it sounds to me they should also show some respect for your traditions.

I say this as a liberal Jew who celebrated both Jewish holidays and Christmas as a kid, but never Easter. I couldn’t give less of a fuck about Easter now, but it doesn’t occur to me to get offended when my friend sends me an Easter card, or when people buy me Easter eggs, or when I am invited for Easter lunch etc.

Could you get round the present prohibition by having something like a treasure hunt, with mini prizes along the way like sweets, and then a nice cuddly toy as the prize? Being older, the 4 year old will almost certainly be fastest, and then would have something new to play with without it having been presented like a present? The 2 year old probably less likely to be bothered?

This is very similar to DD2 and her husband. They are significantly more relaxed about religion in general, than DD1 is.
DD2 doesn’t worry me as much as DD1 as she can get very upset when she feels we aren’t respecting her, where as DD2 just goes with the flow, but that has always been their personalities.

I think it would be easier all round for you to go to see the families on Boxing Day, have a lovely visit then, but not spend Christmas Day all together. Your daughters won’t mind because the day itself is not significant for them; it will avoid any difficulties about children & presents; & enable you (and your sons?) to focus on the religious aspects of the day. You don’t have to squeeze them into the day itself - doing so is clearly already causing stress and may cause awkwardness and possible upset on the day.

Yes this might be worth a try, I’m terrified of my little granddaughter being upset and feeling left out this year, especially as I’m sure the others (the 3 year olds in particular) will be talking about Father Christmas etc.

Your grandchild being upset is her parents job to manage. You've given an option for buying a small gift and your DD has said no. Respect her parental wishes and have absolutely nothing to do with any fall out. Step back and think "I told you so".

In the past we’ve done this or at least closer to this. DD2 is very keen to still come over for dinner and doesn’t want to miss that, as I said they still celebrate Christmas as a cultural event so it does matter to them. DD1 has skipped in the past but is insisting she wants to be there this year and I’d obviously rather she was there as it’s rare to have all the children and grandchildren together at once.

The biggest issue here is DD1 putting you in an awkward position with your grandchild - I wouldn’t be happy to leave 1 child out of gift giving either. I’d perhaps ask her if she could arrive a little later to avoid this awkwardness.

The rest of it, I think you are slightly overthinking (with the best of intentions), you are a Christian household and your children are all aware of that, if they choose to spend Christmas in your home they should expect and accept elements of Christian celebration.

Religion should not be an issue that requires such rule following! There’s a degree of intolerance here. Just have a family day and for once, put religions to one side.

You’ve obviously got dc who have rejected your religion and prefer to follow the men in their lives. Religion should not be causing such a minefield and where’s the tolerance of others if present giving isn’t allowed? You all want what you want and don’t seem to value each other as people - just the rules your various religions dictate.

If dc get upset about no presents, that’s up to their parents. It’s not up to you to explain to them. Are they giving you a present or is it just their religion only? It all feels a bit sad to me and dictatorial.

I also know some Muslim families happily give and receive gifts at Christmas. It’s an exchange of gifts! It’s not a crime against religion. You all need to put the rules to one side and enjoy a family day.

I would still take the opposite approach to PP and buy all the kids a gift. It’s all very well saying the parents can deal with any tears but it’s also your Christmas to enjoy.

I would say unless they can respect your wishes (which to me, are reasonable to ensure each kid has a present), then i don’t think it’s a good idea for them to visit you on xmas day. You also have the right to enjoy it and be relaxed.

OK, if you didn't distribute the presents at your house, but everyone opened presents at their own houses before coming to yours, would that work?
That seems like one way to get round the biggest obstacle - the grandchildren perceiving the unfairness.
Then, the big family part becomes a special meal with everyone getting together.

Could you give the presents to the children as they leave as a gift to take home? Thought I know that isn't as nice for you not seeing them open them.

The 4yo has doubtless been prepped by parents about this if you've told her others are getting gifts. She will also have been hearing a lot about Christmas at school. I would ask your DD1 how she is explaining about their family not celebrating and mirror that language.

If it comes up on the day, and it may not, I'd say something like, "people celebrate Xmas in different ways. Some people go to church and celebrate the birth of Christ. Some people have more of a focus on sharing time, food and gifts with family. I'm so happy you're here celebrating with us."

I do think your DD1 has a strange attitude about having no gifts but still coming for Xmas. If she's devout enough not to want Xmas gifts, it would have been a lot easier to suggest a large family celebration at another time in the holiday period rather than the day itself.