All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

That sounds very awkward and it's that difficult relationship between your two daughters that could spoil Christmas Day. How much does your religion feature on Christmas Day? Could the day be secular without any references to religion at all or isn't that possible?

Your younger daughter sounds more flexible and relaxed than your elder daughter. If DD1 has insisted on no gifts for her children, she will need to deal with consequences of that decision if her children are upset.

If she insist she wants to be there then she will have to cope, won't she? Respectfully, you should learn to set some boundaries. She wants no gifts for the kids, that's fine. She can handle the emotions that go with that decision. As for policing your conversations around religious aspects of Christmas, I'm sorry but this is just not her place to do. And that's what you tell her.
After all, you wouldn't be insisting on attending Eid and demanding nobody brought up religion (at least, I hope not).

I think it's odd of her to come for lunch but refuse any gifts. I'm not a muslim but if I was invited to celebrate Eid I wouldn't want to sterilise that celebration and make it non Islamic or refuse a gift if my host presented me with one. I think you should make it clear that while you whole heartedly support your dd's personal choices if they come to you for Christmas then they join in with your festivities or not come at all.

My kids and I are Jewish and my husband was raised Christian. We’ve navigated a few similar issues but none as complicated as this!

I think it’s important to decide what is most important to you and focus on that - leave the rest aside. There’s no right answer here. Is it most important to all be together? Then you flex everything to accommodate and encourage this. Is it most important to keep your religious traditions? Then you invite anyone who wants to join you and make your peace with imperfect attendance.

My husband and I celebrate everything but the conversation is that he’s joining us for our holidays and we are sharing his. We didn’t do Santa but we have a tree and presents and hot chocolate and baking cookies and all that. Isn’t it nice that daddy shares with us etc.

Do you all live close? Could you drop the gifts round on Christmas Day for the three families who celebrate? Or send them there before Christmas so they open them in their homes? Instead of gifts could you start a tradition of doing something super fun for all the cousins? Maybe they come for Christmas and you all decorate cookies? Think about shared experiences.

I think there’s no chance you could give gifts to 3/4 of the kids and not cause upset so if presence is the most important to you I’d do presents another time.

While it’s not constant, we do of course reference religion, praying before we eat, traditional hymns playing etc. to me it wouldn’t really be Christmas if it were secular.

DD1 and DD2 don’t tend to argue, rather they are just cold with each other but that’s mainly driven by DD1. DD1 can be quite tricky to deal with at times!

That is for her parents to manage

enjoy having your family all together

You are celebrating Christmas. Gift giving is part of that. Your DD1 knows that and that is the problem, she wants you to change how you celebrate.

I think you need to say something to DD. Tell her that any child at your house on the 25th will receive a gift. It doesn't need to be in Xmas paper but it is part of your tradition and your faith.

Ask her if she would change the way she celebrates Eid for you?

It's not like you are serving roast pork is it?

So all are happy to come to yours for secular style Christmas Day? Surely this is great and a fabulous outcome for people of different religious beliefs?
”Religion first” won’t be able to take place whilst you have guests but you will surely be able to attend midnight mass on Christmas Eve night when they aren’t there?
As for the gifts, this is only affecting dd1 so you ask her. I’m feeling really concerned about your children feeling left out, how can we arrange the day so this doesn’t happen.
Maybe the other 3 families come at 10am and her family comes at 11.30am.
It’s not a big problem to solve and feels like you’re panicking over nothing, maybe there’s a back story.

If DD1 wants to come for dinner then let her come for dinner but not the early part of the day. Early morning is Santa, mid morning is church then presents, early afternoon is dinner and games/films/whatever else. She can be included but not in the parts she doesn't believe in.

Absolutely bonkers! Just have a family day, rather than navigating an obstacle course where you can't even see all the obstacles.

(and in the new year, all become atheists 👍)

The answer is for them to all tell their children that this is the way their grandparents celebrate Christmas and we will be participating in this bit. Honestly, it’s not your job to hide what you do.

your DD knows how you celebrate Xmas and is choosing to come. Her family don’t have to join in saying grace. You’re over thinking

Perhaps I'm missing something but surely this can be easily resolved by you not giving the presents on the day? Either you post or drop them off to the grandkids that have presents earlier or you give them to the parents at the door as they leave.

In terms of worrying about what you talk about in relation to your faith, I don't get it really. It's not like you'll be delivering a sermon over dinner is it? Whatever you normally do your daughter is aware of and wants to join you. It's up to her to navigate the 'granny believes this but we believe that's stuff

I’m almost certainly overthinking. There is history of DD1 just being extremely difficult when it comes to religion. She skipped her brothers weddings as they were in churches, has got into some heated rants towards DD2 and her husband over religion/politics (admittedly they don’t rise to it). It also seems to be more directed by DD than her husband who is often telling her to calm down etc.

Can you give presents from you to your dd2 to put under the tree and be opened before they come to your house?

Id put this back on DD1 and Son-in-law, you will be giving Christmas gifts to their cousins. How do they want you to handle dgd not getting anything. You’d be happy to get her something small and say she’s got a s gift because Granny is celebrating her religion and part of that is giving gifts.

I think dd1 is a little unreasonable here, she knows you celebrate Christmas the way you do and is coming to your house for Christmas yet is telling you you can’t celebrate in the way you’d like. I wonder if it’s more her husband saying no and not really understanding why that makes it difficult for you, having not grown up celebrating Christmas?

But still, it’s lovely to have everyone together at Christmas so I understand why you want to try to accommodate everyone’s different beliefs. Especially with all the cousins being close in age, that has potential for family get togethers being a lot of fun in a few years.

Could you just have a lovely meal and play some games together and give gifts to those who are receiving them as they leave? Or if that isn’t possible then explain to the others that they already had their gifts at Eid? But I do think they’re a little too young to accept and understand that…

Your DD1 is sticking out as the huge issue here.

Your eldest is bonkers. Stop pandering to her! My Muslim colleagues all participate in our work festivities inc gift giving.

Can you share your concerns with DD1 and your SIL about their DD feeling left out? Can they explain to their DD that this is a celebration that granny and grandad do and you give her a gift as part of your celebration?

I think if it is explained like that, it will be far less undermining to their beliefs than their DD wondering what is going on and why she is not included @Ellipsie .

Oh ok, this is important context. I think my advice on the presents still stands though. As difficult as dd1 may be, any 4 yo is going to get upset at missing out on presents.

Is she likely to get offended by you saying grace? If so, I would set the expectation beforehand that Christmas will be exactly as it always has been in your house. You will be saying grace and if that makes her uncomfortable you will understand her bowing out of dinner.

I wouldn't change anything though. It sounds like you are respectful of her beliefs so she needs to be the same towards yours.

Yep

I would message dd1 and say " what's the plan for the children and presents? It'll be upsetting for them if everyone else has a gift snd they don't. How are you going to manage it?"

I always buy my Muslim friend a Christmas gift and she accepts it gratefully. And she gets me something at eid which I accept gratefully!

Yes especially final sentence 🤭

Your DD1 is difficult. Why can she not celebrate Christmas and Eid? I would find it extremely sad if my child withdrew from Christmas like that. I am
an atheist, but celebrate Christmas and attend church with my very religious mother in law to sing carols. It’s heathy to expose children to different beliefs too. As I said I am an atheist, but was happy for my children to attend Sunday school as it was run by my mother in law and it was important to her.