All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

You’re overthinking it. Give the parents the childrens presents to open at home before coming.
Your home is a Christian one so no need to tiptoe around celebrating it as such. It’s okay to discuss different beliefs, it’s actually very helpful for the children. Instead of making it obvious how different they are, you can connect through the Old Testament and Abraham, Issac and Jacob, which all 3 believe in.
I’m a Christian ☺️

This is utterly ridiculous. I've been to weddings of all faiths and none. She sounds hard work.

DO NOT PANDER TO HER.

Tell her how things are going to be in advance so she's not blindsided and has no excuse for kicking off on the day. And she can like it or lump it.

Every culture/religion has a midwinter festival. The Christian church adopted it and made it about the ‘birth of Christ’ but really it’s just a feast/celebration to help us get through the short dark days. All these celebrations are based on either solstice days or moon phases, religions have just attached their deities to them. Focus less on the differing religions and make it a multicultural family gathering.

I think you should be congratulating yourself on navigating your children's different beliefs very respectfully, and keeping good relationships with them. You'll manage the present issue somehow. Give presents in advance for them to open at home Christmas morning maybe?

I’m inclined to agree with the other posters who’ve said that you should just crack on with Christmas as you would normally do it.

Your DC’s know how Christmas works for you, they grew up with it.
If your DD invites you to their Eid celebrations or your other DD invites you round for Friday Night Dinner you’d just go with the flow wouldn’t you?
I’ve been invited to plenty of events by friends and wider family members whose faith I don’t share, and have enjoyed them. I just don’t actively take part in the religious elements because I don’t feel that would be appropriate - the Muslim weddings I’ve been to for example: of course I’ll cover my hair and remove my shoes, but I’ll sit quietly and respectfully while the practising Muslims do their prayers etc 🤷🏻‍♀️

I would give the children their presents beforehand to open at home. I wouldn’t be doing presents at the table, it will alienate your dd1 and her family - and then a festive treasure hunt straight after lunch for the children to include the garden, so they can burn off some energy. Maybe leave the presents together - so they have to work together to find them.

Then enjoy and celebrate your usual Christmas. Your dd1 may miss elements of Christmas, even if she can’t bring herself to say so. Make her extra welcome.
Place your sons, you or dh either side of her, so dd2 is not sitting so close. Bring in some fun, games and enjoy having your family together op.

So she’s a bully, who’s gone all in on her husband’s faith to the extent of withdrawing from her own family and culture.

Whats her husband like?

If your DD's husband is the softer of the two I would pop round for a chat when DGD is in bed and talk about your worries about their DD feeling left out / less loved as the only grandchild without a present when the others will be excitedly talking about it and ask how to handle it.

As the original Muslim of the pair he likely will also be more experienced in handling these sorts of situations and his thoughts may carry more weight with DD. Most Muslims I know don't celebrate Christmas, but are happy to receive gifts / cards as a sign of inclusion and care. Similarly I have been invited to share food at Eid even though I am not Muslim. I've always found it to be a religion that is very tolerant and open minded toward others with true Muslims putting a high value on humility and being non judgemental.

Such madness, if this is real. I am not Christian and don't buy Xmas gifts for my family. However I attend other people's parties, and am happy to both accept and give gifts. My friends wish me merry Xmas and I respond.
Don't pander to your DD 1 and stop being so apologetic.

Why on earth would anyone go to the trouble of making this up?

I think there are lots of things going on. Your DD1 is clearly a bit of a 'black sheep'. She's difficult, she went from one religious upbringing to converting to another and becoming zealous about it. She does get on with 2/4 of her siblings, in fact the ones who are religious but not one of them who is apparently more relaxed. There is clearly way way more to this than meets the eye.

Do the religious bits as you wish. Surely a present for a child is not a religious aspect of Christmas? And since it is not, I wouldn't insist on it. Say your prayers, have your hymns, but why fall out over the one non-religious thing you can easily compromise over? If their child is upset that is DD1's headache to deal with.

Maybe your DD1 is extending an olive branch and has decided that her children being with family and grandparents IS more important than shunning Christmas and her Christian family. I would see this as a positive and take it from there.

Could you give the presents to the parents for Xmas morning? And have a shared present for them all (even the non religious ones’or the ones who celebrate Eid) of something to stay at yours- like a big wooden train set or a fisher price village type thing or a dollhouse or even a big box of magnatiles or Lego/duplo? If money is an issue you could even look locally for second hand bargains?

I can’t see much religious chat being had with kids… so don’t overthink that side of things.

Not read the full thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but I’d be careful and make sure the 4 year old doesn’t tell all the younger children Father Christmas isn’t real. When I worked in a reception class a little Muslim girl told the whole class that it was a lie and he’s not real. So many upset children and parent complaints. We explained different religions have different beliefs but she still said it’s still a lie 🙈
When we spoke with her parents they said she did nothing wrong and only told the truth and they wouldn’t tell her to say otherwise.

Converts to religions often tend to be more zealous than people who were born into the religion. My grandmother was like this as she converted to Judaism and she made such a fuss about my mum not being Jewish that there was a permanent rift.

That’s not necessarily true. My kids didn’t have Santa but they didn’t ruin it for other kids. I just said Santa doesn’t come here because we are Jewish but we don’t know what happens in other houses. Would that be amazing? And then we would do something fun for Chanukah.

We used to have a Jewish family member at our Christmas celebrations and I’d go to great lengths making sure there was a kosher version of everything and she’d then announce “today I’m a Christian” and tuck into the pigs in blankets 😂

OP, your issue isn’t religion, it’s your daughter’s dogmatic behaviour. None of my Muslim friends would have an issue with their children joining in the fun- they simply understand it as a Christian festival when Christian’s give gifts, and if someone gives their child a gift well lucky them. Presumably the children are going to join in the meal etc which is also a Christmas thing. I’d be inclined to talk to your daughter and her husband together as it sounds as if your daughter as a convert is perhaps taking an oddly hard line.

This has probably already been suggested but I would ask DD1 to arrive a bit later than the others and give out presents when they are absent. So ask dd2, ds1 & ds2 to arrive at 12 and have nibbles and presents 12-1 then DD1 arrive at 1 for lunch.

I think you are worrying too much.
you’ve got 3 sets of grandkids getting presents and one not, it’s no different to if my kid saw others celebrating Eid and I’d just explain we don’t celebrate / we get presents on Christmas. It’s life isn’t it!

then as for the celebration- do what you would normally do. If you say Grace, say it- you wouldn’t go to a Diwali celebration an expect them change it for you or you’ll be offended. Seeing other religions/cultures is an opportunity for children to learn tolerance and expand their points of view.

its going to be fab! @Ellipsie

I’ll also add, if DD1 wants to join you for dinner then she needs to be respectful of your Christian home. She doesn’t get to dictate. I would agree to give presents to open at home for the sake of the children but that’s it.
I would discuss this beforehand with her, tell her you will be praying, singing hymns etc. If this doesn’t sit well with her beliefs and makes her uncomfortable then they would be better not to come.

Give the gifts ahead of time and have them open them at home.

It's funny how you are being considerate of everyone else but it doesn't seem to be reciprocated. Your religion and beliefs should also be respected. Christmas is a Christian festival after all.

Isn't it funny how the daughters have had to take their husband's religions though? Choice or did they have to?

I think it’s worth considering that whatever changes or compromises you make this time may well set expectations for years to come. You’re tying yourself in knots to keep everyone happy but are you willing to essentially “water down” your own Christmases from now on? Avoiding any mention of the religious aspect which is important to you? Accepting that to placate one dc you don’t get to enjoy watching your dgc open presents from you on the day (or you allow her dc to be upset seeing cousins get gifts from granny and wonder why not them)?

Will your other dc be happy to continue with “a big family Christmas” that’s had chunks ripped out or might they get to deciding they’ll just stay home to do it their way?

I know there’s never a guarantee you’ll all be together every year anyway but in giving in too much to dd1’s preferences you could be setting up years of angsting about Christmas Day. IMO you should politely tell dd that Christmas will be as it’s traditionally been in your house and that will include gifts for gc but if she’d rather not come on that day then that’s perfectly fine too.

This has probably already been suggested but I would ask DD1 to arrive a bit later than the others and give out presents when they are absent. So ask dd2, ds1 & ds2 to arrive at 12 and have nibbles and presents 12-1 then DD1 arrive at 1 for lunch.

This sounds very stressful. Why don’t all tell them to all come Boxing Day? Then you can have the dinner and no presents etc and less stressful family time. I think you need to be more direct with dd1 what your needs are and what the needs of the other family members are.

this is all sounds like and a tinderbox and dd1 is going to throw a tantrum in front of the whole family and all the kids trying to enjoy their gifts. Does she do things to get a reaction or attention? Does she have the capacity to ruin as for everyone? Create an atmosphere in your house over you celebrating your own religion ?

Dd1 sounds like an unkind and disrespectful madam. I think you need to decide what you need for the day, tell dd1 what you’ve decided eg there will be prayers, gifts for any children attending etc and that you need for her to respect it’s an important celebration for you and everyone else there.

our situation has been similar to yours for the last few years, OP. My daughter converted to Islam just before she got married and has become increasingly strict in her interpretation of her religion, although she doesn’t have children yet. For the first three years she was happy to still be with us for Christmas, but after the first year she and her husband didn’t accept or give any Christmas presents of cards. I found the food restrictions challenging, particularly as she only eats organic food on top of halal food, but of course made the effort to make a Christmas dinner thst we could all eat. I found an organic halal turkey, organic alcohol and nutmeg free mince pies and Christmas pudding; I gave up trying to find halal goose fat and had to cook the roast potatoes without it. But my daughter and son in law are living overseas again and she’s become increasingly religious, and this will be the second year thst she won’t be coming home for Christmas because according to her interpretation of her religion it’s wrong to take part in the festivities even though she knows that we aren’t at all religious and we just have couple of days of eating special food and exchanging presents. I can understand how much more difficult it must be for you to navigate this with young children involved, and I think you have to leave it to your daughter to explain why your granddaughter isn’t being given any presents while her cousins are. Maybe the suggestion of having a treasure hunt type activity might be a way round it as someone else suggested? How do you navigate birthdays for your granddaughter? Presumably she isn’t allowed birthday presents either? I’ve found it quite sad that my daughter no longer celebrates birthdays.