To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

[andanotheryear]

or quashed by a stern voice
or who cares if you get angry / furious / apoplectic
or who gives a damn about consequences because they live for the moment

aibu

(I’m not)

That said, those DC who are quelled by their parents’ anger aren’t learning how to behave or to make good choices. They are learning to avoid trouble/getting caught. Parenting by fear is bullying.

We had a baptism of fire with DS1, but we eventually learned great child rearing skills- in fact good people management skills!

Parent with consequences not anger.

Some of us are foreign, and didn’t see such high rates of “spirited-ness” in our countries.
Nor did our friends from other foreign countries, in their countries.
(we’re all from Europe btw in my case and my friends’ case, so not even the excuse of huge cultural differences)

Oh do read the original posting; the OP spoke of a child who didn't give a damn about consequences.

I have a 3 year old who laughs and me and/or hits me when I ask him to put on his shoes. Half the internet tells me to be tougher. Half the internet tells me to be gentler.

YANBU.

YANBU

My friend has a daughter who just isn't phased by any sort of authority, she just does what she wants when she wants. If her mum tries to stop her she attacks her. If you manage to get her to do somthing it is because she wants to do it, not because she's been bribed, told off ect. She just doesn't care

My own daughter is autistic and some of her meltdowns have been horrific over the years and it's been incredibly tough getting her the support she needs, but I'd honestly rather have my DD and all her needs than my friends child and the way she behaves / just doesn't care

I think you're probably right. I was lucky to have DC who were easy.
I remember among my DC friends there was a child who unnerved me because he was completely immune to any kind of adult authority. I remember thinking I couldn't parent that child. I'm talking about a young child in situations like beavers or a birthday party who would just look with defiance at any adult who asked him to do something.

The few posters posting about punitive consequences and stern voice may be the louder ones but they are already in the minority. I often wonder if they are actually still parenting in today’s world.

Many parents know this is not working and is indeed counterproductive. We are reparenting ourselves, teaching ourselves emotional intelligence, and breaking generation cycles.

And it’s not ‘gentle’ parenting to teach your child to manage his feelings, to show them empathy and still be the parental authority.

I think the reality is that although there are some broad principles that can be applied to 'parenting', to do it successfully you do have to adapt your methods a bit to each child. I have one kid who just naturally wants to please and is just straightforward to parent, but you need to be careful not to take advantage of that by using a lot disapproval to keep him in line. I have another who is incredibly stubborn and wilful, who needs extremely firm boundaries and only responds to strong and consistent consequences. I have another who is highly emotional, with an explosive temper, who needs a lot of nurturing and talking about his feelings. I have only worked out what they each need through a lot of trial and error. When I first had children I just thought if you were firm and consistent, everything would be fine. I quickly realised that actually being consistent is quite hard and that many kids need other things in addition to help them behave. Or maybe I just had difficult kids.

How long ago was this? Do you know how that child turned out? I'm asking because my DD is 6 and there is a child like that in her class that we see at a lot of the class birthday parties. I'm really curious to know what these children are like when they are older.

I find this so hard. I probably just need to follow my own instincts more.

If it helps, three years old was not a good time for us. It’s better now.

I have ND children and I often feel that regarding their behaviour I have put in twice the work for half the results compared to those with NT children. I do some work with children and it's amazing how much more naturally well-behaved some are than others, even within the same family.

There is a difference between rage anger and the stern I'm taking no shit tone.

With ND child you will have laughing in your face while trying to help with dressing as a teenager. Being angry exacerbates the situation, it's more fuel to the fire. Hard I know but remaining calm, repetition, no emotions, works better.

Then again when DH comes in and shouts, DC will be upset but bloody does it!

Same in schools, unfortunately the only way some kids comply is by having an authoritative figure bawling at them.

I like to be firm but fair and always explain things but in the moment to get kids to just get on and do it takes different approaches.

I smile inwardly about the self proclaimed perfect parents of their first, compliant DC. They tend to patronise the parents of more rambunctious children. I wait patiently for their second, who as often as not is a holy terror and totally belies their confidence they knew it all 😅

There is a difference between rage anger and the stern I'm taking no shit tone. some respond to neither

It's easy to think you've cracked parenting, when you've actually just cracked parenting the children you have.

DD1 was a really easy young child. A stern voice and 'you need to have done it by the time I count to five' was all it took. I don't think I got past three. I had no idea what I'd do if I got to five.

DD2 just didn't care. She'd happily let you count to five and just stare at you. Consequences don't faze her much, or rewards. She sometimes likes to make us happy, but on her own terms, with a sweet gesture or some nice words. But she really doesn't care much about doing what we want at any particular time.

Mine needed to be trusted and taught and explained. He was an independent minded little so and so, who didn’t do things because I asked, because I wanted, because I shouted.

He did them when it made sense to him. The trick turned out to be, making it make sense for him. In school they used to use WIIFM or something Similar. What’s in it for me.

It may comfort some who are still in the trenches to know that he was a very easy teen as a result of all the work we did when he was small. Things turned around when he was about 10. Up until then, it really was touch and go. The worst of it was probably when he was under 8.

DS2 in contrast was so easy.

I think a lot of people think you can force all children to ‘behave’ but in reality you can’t. Some will resist like it’s their reason for living, even when it results in negative consequences. There are techniques that can help, but trying to force them will never work.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda/

My middle child is a bit like this but she hates a cross voice and will cry. Doesn’t mean she’ll do as you ask willingly - I have had to physically hold her hands to pick up her toys. She’s been a lot more challenging to parent as I have to be a lot more creative and read her mood. Going to school has been a game changer for her though. Not sure what the difference is or if she’s just that bit older and more mature but she’s much more compliant. I truly believe that she may have ASD or ADHD and she’s working hard to mask her impulsiveness and stubborn streak at school.

Such a different kettle of fish to my eldest who is far more complaint and generally does as she’s told first time you ask. She was a very easygoing and compliant toddler too. DS isn’t even 2 yet but he is more of a wildfire child like DD2.

There with you op 🤗

With DD I have to wait for the emotion to pass and she is a very reasonable little human. Before then threats don't tend to work and I'm just left enforcing a punishment after the moment has passed.

The key is to stay calm myself and not get into a power struggle - even though I'd usually 'win' the struggle we'd both lose as all she'd learn is temporary compliance, compliance isn't what I want to teach her.

Depending on whether you can reason with them and drum some principles and empathy into them along the way, these kids will either end up in prison or they'll rule the world.

Shy bairns get nowt unfortunately.

Hint: your child is not learning the lessons you think it is.

My autistic DC1 doesn't 'read' authority. She can't always see a 'bigger picture' or understand the reasons for a boundary. Neither does she have the capacity to modify her tone according to circumstance. This can lead to strange exchanges where she appears defiant, oppositional and downright rude. Normal 'rules of engagement' in conflict can't be relied upon, so we muddle through, trying to find ways of communicating that make some kind of sense.

I'm relieved I had my easy-going, biddable NT DC2 second, as I'd likely have been insufferable had she been my firstborn, convinced that her compliance and cooperative nature was reflective of my superlative parenting skills.

Children like this are in the minority so YANBU, just factual.

No-one can understand what it's like to parent a child that they don't have.

You can't understand the intricacies of parenting a medically complex child if you don't have one. You can't understand parenting a child with physical disabilities if you don't have one. You can't understand parenting a child with an extremely high IQ if you don't have one. And so on. And so on.

You are not at fault for not understanding the reality of these situations if you don't live them. You can't.