To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

[andanotheryear]

or quashed by a stern voice
or who cares if you get angry / furious / apoplectic
or who gives a damn about consequences because they live for the moment

aibu

(I’m not)

Completely agree OP. I have two children who naturally want to please me so if I tell the off they shape up. I have one who just reacts with anger at any attempt to discipline. On the flip side of that as he isn't externally motivated he is very internally motivated and works hard at school and his hobbies.

The car seat scenario is interesting. DD1 was like Houdini and could get out of her seat with a 5 point harness by undoing it when she was two. As soon as we strapped her in, she would undo it again, so we had to keep stopping and putting her back in it. She couldn’t speak, so we couldn’t reason with her. Our doctor suggested that maybe she didn’t like feeling constrained and confined, and that we try a booster seat, used with an ordinary seatbelt. It was instant success. She could reach across for her books and toys and was so much happier. We also had to put her in a bed at 18 months as she climbed out of her cot.

The wrong type of praise has very clearly been shown to destroy intrinsic motivation. Saying "good job" all the time is counterproductive. This is well established in child development literature.

Yeah my kids are AuDHD and PDA and if i shout at them or get stern with them, 9/10 times its like throwing petrol on a fire.

God yes. DD 26 was (and still is) and absolute dream child. She had respect for me and did (mostly) as she was told. She had her teen strops but always apologised afterwards. She was easy to bribe with cash/withdrawal of pocket money.

DS 12 on the other hand cannot be reasoned with. There are no consequences in the world that will make him comply when he's in the moment. None. His stubborness is terrifying. He gets that from his dad. Unfortunately he's also got my temper (fast and furious) and the two things together are pretty nuclear.

Send help. And alcohol.

Parents of only children take note😁.
It's not all down to your super parenting. Lots of it is luck.
I freely admit my two were easy apart from a very challenging phase around age four.
That was hard enough, I can't imagine dealing with a rebellious teenage, I think DH and I would have crumpled.

You just have not found the right thing yet... everyone has a weakness.

Haha... this sounds like an FBI interrogation from the 80s but it's true!

I think you have to be brutal with natural consequences, whilst minimizing the opportunities for “defying” you (escalation).

Pick a day when you are going somewhere he wants to go and turn back if he gets out of the car seat. We cannot go there because you are putting yourself and everyone in the car at risk by taking off your belt. Also, I am the responsible driver and will be the one dealing with the police.

You don’t want to eat that, let me take your plate away, see ya at breakfast.
You don’t want to stop on the X-box: come home from school and find it gone.
You won’t pick your clothes off the floor, don’t expect a lift.
Act the little twat on the way to school - get up an hour early to walk there, and watch me not give a shit.
You know those sports coaches chats about being decent to your family… what do you think prompts them?

Then talk talk talk whilst they are calm and listening.

There is however one absolute rule with children who won’t be told. You must delay them driving as long as possible because these forces within them get unleashed when they are behind the wheel of a car. Don’t pay for lessons, don’t pay for insurance… and tell them why.

Doesn’t care @Tpu

He might in the moment care that he’s not going but it doesn’t translate to ‘so next time I must not undo my car seat.’

Of course I’ve seen this advice. Which also doesn’t consider that your kid might have an amazing day out and then start roaming around the car on the way home.

Interestingly my youngest DD cannot STAND it when we try to empathise with her, validate her feelings etc. It makes her so so angry. We have to leave her to calm down herself (luckily she is able
to do this in a safe way). Even afterwards, she will not engage in any empathising/validating.

We had a behaviour expert observe us in our home for about a week. They came in each day. It was a cahms/LA person.

Towards the end of the week she wrote in her report that 'he cares about no consequences that would generally be used in peace time'

We moved away from consequences based parenting at that point.

So what did you do instead?

You can’t make people care, but you can make “behaving as if you care” the more pleasant choice. Fundamentally, this is his personality.

It is more difficult of course on the way home, and it isn’t actually clear from your posts whether it is can’t /won’t/ unrealistic expectations. I’m sort of guessing a mixture of the first two.

You are definitely in for the long haul, and to an extent it is a containment exercise. The kids I knew as Explosive Children are all now coming into adulthood, the boys certainly are universally Explosive and Angry men. (Even the ones that manage to hide it a bit.)

@Covidwoes that is interesting as ds is a bit like this. If he’s in a rage you just need to wait for him to calm down. He doesn’t fly into rages often at all now to be fair, but as a toddler they were epic.

I think the thing with consequences is that the child firstly has to have the emotional maturity to understand the link between what they’ve done and the consequence. If you think about it, adults too otherwise no one would speed or park in a place where they’ll get a ticket or break the law at all.

Ideally natural consequences are good. But they aren’t a complete solution, especially if the natural consequence actually impacts more on other family members than the child themself.

@Tpu like I say, I’m not really seeking advice. I just know a lot of people on here will insist that you need consequences, more consequences, get annoyed, tell them off. Do this, do that. When you’ve done all that and read the books you’re largely left with your own instincts.

DS isn’t even exceptionally difficult or anything. I know many children who are worse. But I do know if I get angry with him he doesn’t cry or get scared or intimidated, he gets angry right back.

Sounds miserable but I dont think most people know or care how other people parent their children, they just care about the results.

Long journey based on PDA parenting techniques found on the PDA Society website and building the quality of relationship. With a side order of speech and language therapy and occupational therapy to reduce anxiety, plus just maturing

The early stages involved a lot of not going anywhere or doing anything because I couldnt bribe or consequence him into it. It wasnt fun or easy or quick. It was miserable.

He is now he is very compliant for want of a better word. And lots of my friends find there older teens dont care about the consequences anymore, but they have no other strategies developed so there's a lot of angst.

I totally understand this. Discipline does not work. It is exhausting. I only hope things will improve with age 🙏

It’s true and rightly so in a way, it’s more the sort of ‘well of course your child doesn’t care. What are the consequences?’

When consequences don’t work (or massively escalate the situation) that’s tricky.

Why is it a surprise that if a child is in a rage you need to wait for them to calm down? That's surely quite obvious and lots of child development articles say you need to remain close by, calm and silent to first help them regulate their emotions before trying to tackle the behaviour. It's hardly news?

And surely it's not surprising that random posters on the internet might be giving bad advice re your comment that people are just telling you "consequences and more consequences" without anything actually helpful.

It also shouldn't be a surprise that different children respond differently. After all, adults don't all react in the same way so why should kids? So yes, each parent can only parent the children they actually have.

I honestly don't understand the point of your thread, OP?

I agree it is obvious so am unsure why you are being argumentative; we seem to agree.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. I'm just confused - you say you didn't post for advice so is this thread a complaint about other parents not understanding your parenting challenges? But like I wrote earlier, every child is different and so I'm surprised that you would be surprised? I'm guessing you also don't understand what it's like to parent a child who is not yours, that's surely normal. Is there a specific situation/conversation that prompted this thread?

@Thatsalineallright

Sorry if you’re confused.

If you do a search on MN or just find any thread about child’s behaviour you’ll find lots of advice is along the lines of get angry, give consequences etc.

Of course sometimes there’s helpful stuff too but ‘what are the consequences’ is said over and over and over.

so this thread is a sort of general response I guess.

You are definitely in for the long haul, and to an extent it is a containment exercise. The kids I knew as Explosive Children are all now coming into adulthood, the boys certainly are universally Explosive and Angry men. (Even the ones that manage to hide it a bit.)

That's not DS and he's 18 now - he wasn't a bad teen at all - but was an explosive toddler and child.

It may depend on why they are exploding with DS it was strugling with transitions, stuggling doing what his peers were whether that was physically or educationally - so that all improved with time and support. He's actually pretty coflict adverse his sister in bad moods can needle and he handles it better than others in family. He is pretty driven but in a good way now.

DD1 when she set off - and often it was sensory overload - you could do nothing but wait it out - comfort or attention of any kind would make it all worse. She also very detemined from young age - recently disgosed ADHD and few other things.

I never had the car seat issue as we don't drive - they had to learn to walk and hold my hand or pushchair and if they couldn't behave on public transport - where we could they'd walk back and they rapidly learnt to behave. Car seat pretty much a red line - so I'd look to see if there any tech that could help prevent escapes and if not use feet and/or public transport and make it clear why - my DC caught on very quick when they moan at being tried walking and got very grumpy we'd be on bus if you had behave repsonse every time.

I have young adults now with adhd and autism. My oldest squared up to me one morning, as a teen. I dropped my voice and bellowed at him to get to his room for his own safety! We were a non physical punishment house so I’ve no idea what I would have done 🤣

All of mine are quashed by a “look” from me and I’ve never made it to 3 (as in 1… 2…). I did ask, once, what the thought would happen and they all agreed that they don’t even want to think about it 🤣

Before I sound like an evil villain that my kids are scared of, they’re not. But they are well aware that I can be “fierce” and I mostly use that fierceness against others to support them (the LEA etc).