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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

192 replies

andanotheryear · 15/12/2025 21:25

or quashed by a stern voice
or who cares if you get angry / furious / apoplectic
or who gives a damn about consequences because they live for the moment

aibu

(I’m not)

OP posts:
MushMonster · 17/12/2025 17:12

beAsensible1 · 17/12/2025 11:36

Don’t need anger, consequences and follow through to the bitter end.

cancel the school trip even if you pay full price, don’t replace the gadget, don’t give the £, remove the telly/internet.

be willing to be in the mire as well to teach the lesson.

OP does not sound fond of consequences. Neither she has said a peep about logic........

andanotheryear · 17/12/2025 17:14

I’d be very fond of them if they were effective!

OP posts:
MushMonster · 17/12/2025 17:19

EarthAndInstinct · 17/12/2025 12:41

Sounds tough. Is your son neurodivergent?

Good question. OP has not mentioned this or that she intends to get her child assessed.
She just keeps moaning, only...
Refusing any advice....
Has issues figuring out consequences herself....
And no mention of how calm logic explanations affect her child....

So, just keep doing what you do = get the same outcome. Easy!

andanotheryear · 17/12/2025 17:23

I have answered it Confused I clearly said he wasn’t! What’s the matter with you?

OP posts:
Madthings · 17/12/2025 18:20

How are you sure they are not ND? How old are they?

6 kids yere from 26 down to 9 yrs.

Eldest was fine i could explain, use natural consequences etc. Is autustic, gifyrf for want of a better word.

2nd son was more stubborn he is autistic adhd logic, consistency etc but tested me...

3rd no issues at at very biddable and easy going.

4 was in-between no 2 and 3. He is autistic adhd.

No 5 a mix like no 4. Liked routine, structure etc. Also autistic.

No 6... absolutely nothing worked... he is PDA complex needs, tourettes, absence seizures, massively complex sensory profile. Nursery couldn't get him to do anything, nor could school.. he now has eotas, 2:1 all staff pda trained and use PACE techniques following what he wants to do its learning by stealth and his intetests. Life is tricky!

I also work in complex needs dchool. My 3 adult children are all doung very well, one went to uni, turned down a place at Cambridge now works in IT and is sought after. One in investments, another mechanic.

The 17 yr old is at college doing art, my 15 yr old has always done very well.

And then I got my youngest.... every one of them has taught me sonething different. But PDA has been one hell of a journey and rules, consequences, authority mean nothing to him. He will and has happily told his Head teacher to get in the bin and will simply say you cant tell me what to do. His pda also stops him doing things he wants to fo, it impacts eating, drinking, going to the toilet. I have had to learn a whole new way of life with him. And sometimes yes it means we dont go out, he cant access a typical education, healthcare is a nightmare. Its bloody exhausting tbh.

Madthings · 17/12/2025 18:23

Anyway my point is some kids are just wored different. My Nan used to say to me that my eldest was a biddable child, i had no idea what she meant until I had my 2nd.

All children are different, ND makes a difference obviously. Natural consequences, consistency, fair but firm etc. But for some kids it makes zero difference.

tequilam0ckingbird · 17/12/2025 18:28

Hirral · 15/12/2025 21:52

I think the reality is that although there are some broad principles that can be applied to 'parenting', to do it successfully you do have to adapt your methods a bit to each child. I have one kid who just naturally wants to please and is just straightforward to parent, but you need to be careful not to take advantage of that by using a lot disapproval to keep him in line. I have another who is incredibly stubborn and wilful, who needs extremely firm boundaries and only responds to strong and consistent consequences. I have another who is highly emotional, with an explosive temper, who needs a lot of nurturing and talking about his feelings. I have only worked out what they each need through a lot of trial and error. When I first had children I just thought if you were firm and consistent, everything would be fine. I quickly realised that actually being consistent is quite hard and that many kids need other things in addition to help them behave. Or maybe I just had difficult kids.

are you me? I have 3 kids, each with the personalities you describe.

andanotheryear · 17/12/2025 18:45

@Madthings I’m not sure in the sense I know for absolute certain but I don’t think he is, it’s never been raised as a possibility at nursery or school and so I’d say the only answer to ‘is he neurodivergent’ is ‘no!’

Ds isn’t as you describe your sixth child, he wouldn’t be rude like that (not being critical, sorry if it came over that way.) He just sort of cheerfully blunders through life not phased by me or DH. He will listen to teachers though (and I don’t think that’s my shocking parenting; I know enough about kids to know that’s as it should be!)

Interestingly any sort of reward system is also ineffective for ds.

I do parent him. I am firm when I have to be, but I do recognise that if we lock horns it’s very difficult to get my way, in a way I didn’t anticipate before becoming a mum.

OP posts:
Dontlletmedownbruce · 17/12/2025 19:10

WiltedLettuce · 15/12/2025 23:22

Depending on whether you can reason with them and drum some principles and empathy into them along the way, these kids will either end up in prison or they'll rule the world.

Shy bairns get nowt unfortunately.

I think I said that exact sentence to Dh in relation to DS many years ago. He had oppositional behaviours, these days it would be called PDA. Bloody nightmare. Imagine if your little kid is at the edge of a rooftop and if you call him back he will jump so you pretend to not notice or care in the hope he doesnt die. Thats (literally) what it was like. Always a double bluff. Thankfully he is falling into the latter category, fiercely competitive and motivated, A student and a focused athlete. It honestly could have gone either way. We had to step back a lot or at least give that impression, even now I wouldn't dare tell him he should study or not go out because he would do the exact opposite.

He is 18 now and a charming and responsible boy. Hope that gives you some comfort @andanotheryear

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/12/2025 19:20

A parent who tries to maintain power through fear - whether it's shouting, a permanently stern and angry voice, going straight from zero to a thousand miles a minute and is always on a fine trigger for it (even before you take physical violence to make them feel better about themselves at the expense of the child) - is just as likely to end up the subject of utter contempt.

Why should a child respect or obey somebody like that? One day they'll be bigger and stronger, not a little child anymore - and still more in control of themselves than the raging creature in front of them.

PermanentTemporary · 17/12/2025 19:35

But there’s a difference between parenting by anger and having anger/shock as one of the things you feel/display as a parent.

When 3.5 year old ds was suspiciously quiet playing with 3.5 female associate on 22 December and they were collectively found to have OPENED ALL THE OTHER FAMILY’s CHRISTMAS PRESENTS, yeah I was angry. And disappointed. The fact that ds was responsive to that and immediately ashamed made it pretty easy to deal with.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 17/12/2025 23:00

Interestingly any sort of reward system is also ineffective for ds.

Sounds like he really marches to his own drum! It'll be interesting to see how he grows up.

BertieBotts · 17/12/2025 23:51

Oh yes, I have one like this.

What's funny looking back is that DS1 was challenging from the ages of maybe 3-8 - and he genuinely was, I think it was the ADHD, I didn't even realise how unusually difficult he was until he was much older. And I can also see that I really didn't help because I was a bit chaotic myself so my lack of consistency and calmness just added fuel to the fire. But I do honestly think he would have been tricky anyway. I did so much talking about emotions with him that he has ended up very emotionally intelligent, which is nice?

Then came DS2 and at first I was astonished because until he was about 4, he seemed much easier than DS1. I think because I had literally read about 40 parenting books (I counted them once) and tried everything with DS1 plus I was a lot more settled emotionally (being 30 rather than 20) with DS2 he got off to a much smoother start because I already knew all the "right ways" to handle challenging behaviour. But once his difficulties really kicked in he is a totally different beast. Sometimes he literally acts as though he is on a totally different planet and not even present on Earth. I very much relate to the example of trying to have a conversation about a car seat and he is wondering what kind of birthday cake he will get. He is now diagnosed ADHD with some suspicion of autism - I have thought he was autistic since he was 2 but he doesn't present as typically autistic either plus he wouldn't cooperate with the assessment so, no diagnosis as yet.

DS3 is like neither of them and does things like actually stay on the step Confused and listens if you say stop doing that or XYZ will happen. We have never (intentionally) made him afraid but just the normal stuff like mild disapproval has an effect on him and he experiences guilt/empathy etc and has done from much younger than the other two. He also can listen to a perspective and take it on board, obviously it doesn't always override childish impulses but in general he is a dream - and yet he seems one of the more active/stubborn children at nursery (I don't know what I would do with an actually compliant child!)

I think some people are misinterpreting the OP as suggesting that anger/threats are a good way to parent or that people routinely use this kind of thing as a main parenting method and I don't think that is what she is saying. The thing is that anger, or at least "sternness", consequences, disapproval ARE part of normal parenting, they should not be a large proportion, in fact they should be minimal, but they absolutely are a normal part of the way adults communicate with children, you need a way to communicate no, actually, that's enough now - they do have a place, and it is quite baffling when a child simply does not respond.

For example - one of the worst things DS2 ever did was that he went through a bit of an obsession with the idea of weeing outside in the play area. He was six, not at school because we are abroad but an educational setting. He absolutely knew it was not allowed and I also kept explaining in all kinds of ways but one day he did it anyway and got found out by the teachers and he was actually sitting out on the bench for it when I went to pick him up. I was SO embarrassed and furious but I didn't want to shout because I knew that wouldn't help. But when I went to retrieve him from the bench and explained in a very serious tone (again) why he was in trouble he just didn't register this at all. He was reacting as though it was a totally normal pick up and nothing had happened. He then wanted to go and collect some stones for some game and I said no, and he couldn't understand why I wouldn't let him do it and got quite agitated about it. He then wanted to get ice cream on the way home and again, couldn't understand why I said no or what his behaviour had to do with it. I found it really difficult because most children would understand, if they had got into trouble, that their parent would be unhappy about it and that they shouldn't push their luck by asking for fun things, but he just does not make that link or differentiate. I did come home on that day and despair a bit because I felt like how can I ever teach him social norms or what is right when he won't even have a discussion about it. But that said he has never done that again.

I think it has given me a totally different perspective TBH. A lot of the everyday disapproval/consequences/stern tone I actually find fairly unnecessary now (because they just tend to escalate DS2 so we rarely use them) and I think you'd be surprised if you try to track how often this is used to note how common it is. I think people tend to fall back on this more often than they would realise and TBF for the vast majority of kids, it doesn't have such a negative effect that it's not worth it. If you have a generally loving/supportive relationship then it's going to be a drop in the ocean and it won't make a dent in it, and most children also pick up enough from general social learning that they are generally working out the acceptable ways to behave etc so they don't attract disapproval or sternness from adults constantly anyway, unless they are going through a tricky phase.

But, I also think that we tend to attribute more power to things like consequences and fear of angering a parent than they actually have. I don't think that is really where learning happens, I think it's more in the observation and development of skills. Because we have to teach all of that stuff to DS2 more explicitly because he doesn't pick it up on his own it makes it more visible, but I think that's the majority of how all children learn. It's just that we remember the times that we tell them off or the big incident where you were livid or whatever and think about that as being the learning moment, but I don't know that it is. Maybe it makes an impression, I think we all have childhood memories of something like that, but if you have a child who hasn't managed to get there with whatever skill they were lacking that led them to behave like that in the first place then it doesn't matter how angry you get they will still not have the skill.

andanotheryear · 18/12/2025 07:47

That thing about weeing outside is ds to a point! He will be in big trouble and seconds later demand ice cream.

That said, he did once do something bad to DHs very expensive car and DH was furious. Ds was tearful then. But when I tried to explain why daddy was so angry he didn’t seem to get it … it’s a worry.

OP posts:
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/12/2025 08:35

tothelefttotheleft · 17/12/2025 14:38

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Was it a private school?

I live in the Netherlands and it's a unique class attached to a standard school, started and created by a rather unique individual who's gathered other teachers who are capable of changing their methods to handle these children. They have done a lot of research into the psychologists who explored more unusual children. They seem to concentrate on wrangling the children so they learn self - insight and awareness, and carefully use group dynamics to help with feedback. It's not a million miles away from my own area so I can glimpse some of what they do and they get results. Some of these children have become so disruptive they've been excluded before and a good proportion go back into the standard school system and do well. Often academically but honestly more importantly they are settled in themselves.

The class is under threat though. New director who doesn't get it, and money. As ever.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 18/12/2025 10:07

@BertieBotts what a wonderful insightful post. One to re-read several times and copy for coming back to later, if you don't mind.

KittyFinlay · 18/12/2025 10:17

The good news is that your child isn't scared of you. Children shouldn't be scared of their parents.

The bad news is that he doesn't respect consequences. This is either because he's not yet grasped the concept of cause and effect or because you're not imposing strong enough consequences.

If he's not sitting correctly in his car seat, get an ERF seat which holds him more securely and tell him he won't be turning back until he can show he's mature enough. If it's an optional activity, like going to a party or the park, you stop the car and turn it around and he misses that activity.

My child isn't a compliant child and doesn't gaf if we're angry. So she makes choices. On Sunday she was angry because it wasn't her turn to choose the music in the car on the way to a panto. She started shouting her own favourite song over the music. I told her she could pick to carry on and we'd turn the car around and go home, missing the panto, or she could stop and accept that it wasn't always her turn to listen to the music. She chose to shut up.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/12/2025 10:56

KittyFinlay · 18/12/2025 10:17

The good news is that your child isn't scared of you. Children shouldn't be scared of their parents.

The bad news is that he doesn't respect consequences. This is either because he's not yet grasped the concept of cause and effect or because you're not imposing strong enough consequences.

If he's not sitting correctly in his car seat, get an ERF seat which holds him more securely and tell him he won't be turning back until he can show he's mature enough. If it's an optional activity, like going to a party or the park, you stop the car and turn it around and he misses that activity.

My child isn't a compliant child and doesn't gaf if we're angry. So she makes choices. On Sunday she was angry because it wasn't her turn to choose the music in the car on the way to a panto. She started shouting her own favourite song over the music. I told her she could pick to carry on and we'd turn the car around and go home, missing the panto, or she could stop and accept that it wasn't always her turn to listen to the music. She chose to shut up.

Goodness, what an easy child you have. Mind you, I was the parent watching "House of Tiny Tearaways" saying "Blimey kid, call that a tantrum? Act like you mean it - give it some welly".

If it's an optional activity, like going to a party or the park

"Optional"? Going to the park or a party is "optional" in the same way that eating broccoli is "optional". You can not give your child broccoli but what are you going to substitute for the vitamins? Ditto park, exercise? Party, social opportunity? What's the equivalent of vitamin supplements for those things?

And of course if you have two kids in the car then neither of them are going to the park because one of them is non-compliant? That wont fly.

I could be wrong but I think the OP has made it pretty clear that her DS doesn't / didn't really understand consequences. Some kids don't make the connection though I think most of them do get there later on as they grow up. So now I am trying to imagine the "social story" that explains why you don't get an ice cream after you've been collected from school for doing something unacceptable Grin. It's part of what makes the world a very scary place for kids with ASCs - as far as they are concerned adults give and remove treats at random. It's not predictable.

KittyFinlay · 18/12/2025 11:22

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/12/2025 10:56

Goodness, what an easy child you have. Mind you, I was the parent watching "House of Tiny Tearaways" saying "Blimey kid, call that a tantrum? Act like you mean it - give it some welly".

If it's an optional activity, like going to a party or the park

"Optional"? Going to the park or a party is "optional" in the same way that eating broccoli is "optional". You can not give your child broccoli but what are you going to substitute for the vitamins? Ditto park, exercise? Party, social opportunity? What's the equivalent of vitamin supplements for those things?

And of course if you have two kids in the car then neither of them are going to the park because one of them is non-compliant? That wont fly.

I could be wrong but I think the OP has made it pretty clear that her DS doesn't / didn't really understand consequences. Some kids don't make the connection though I think most of them do get there later on as they grow up. So now I am trying to imagine the "social story" that explains why you don't get an ice cream after you've been collected from school for doing something unacceptable Grin. It's part of what makes the world a very scary place for kids with ASCs - as far as they are concerned adults give and remove treats at random. It's not predictable.

Your child's muscles won't atrophy because you missed going to the park and neither will their social skills be ruined because of missing a party.

She's not easy. My older child was easy and she is extremely strong willed- but she understands that we will follow through and she can make the choice.

If it results in a 2 hour tantrum then so be it.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/12/2025 11:29

KittyFinlay · 18/12/2025 11:22

Your child's muscles won't atrophy because you missed going to the park and neither will their social skills be ruined because of missing a party.

She's not easy. My older child was easy and she is extremely strong willed- but she understands that we will follow through and she can make the choice.

If it results in a 2 hour tantrum then so be it.

Yes, but presumably you didn't have to do it often, it wasn't every time you tried to drive to the park. For some of us it's really not about missing one party or one trip to the park and then job done. Especially if your kid doesn't really want to go to the park anyway and would happily go back to their room.

minipie · 18/12/2025 11:35

YANBU OP

Can I also say for the record that these children also do not respond to any form of gentle parenting, talking it through and explaining, bribery etc.

They do what THEY want to do.

As they get older you can reason with them more and explain why their short term desire is not in their long term best interests. This works maybe at 10+. If their self control is good enough to remember the long term when in the moment.

PermanentTemporary · 18/12/2025 12:14

You can read old books and see these children between the lines.

’Matt, however, regarded hidings as a sort of natural phenomenon, unconnected with any actions of his own, and submitted to them philosophically enough’ (Nancy Mitford)

BruachAbhann · 18/12/2025 12:18

NewUserName2244 · 16/12/2025 05:56

In the adult world we need all sorts of people.

In most scenarios we need people able to follow the rules and do as they are told. If you work in a supermarket stacking shelves, you don’t get very far if you wander off and start maintaining the freezer. If you work in insurance compliance and start making up your own process you’ll be sacked.

But we also need people who operate by their own internal moral compass and sense of direction, who aren’t swayed by people around them. Whistleblowers, journalists, company CEO’s.

I don’t think that it’s coincidence that the two populations where adhd is really regularly reported as being over represented are prison and company ceos.

Ive got one of these kids and one thing which often works for us is “if you were the parent here what would you do?” “I’d let my child go out without shoes” “What would you do if they hurt their feet” etc.

Natural consequences also sometimes work “I’m not going to wear shoes” “ok, I’ll bring them with me incase your feet get cold and wet”.

But you can’t make them care about consequences if they don’t!

I've got a defiant, headstrong, independently-minded child like this. He might have ADHD but is also gifted and slow at handwriting which the psychologist said could make him seem like he has ADHD so have to deal with that first.

It's nothing to do my parenting techniques. My first two were good as gold, compliant, model kids who got on well in school. My third is getting on so badly in school we're removing him and going to home educate for a while to rebuild his confidence and actually teach him stuff. He was so resistant to learning or doing any work despite the high IQ. And he was so stressed all the time. I feel like we've all been released from prison knowing that he's not going back!

He'll definitely be a leader or inventor or some kind of high achiever if we can keep him on the right track, but traditional authoritarian methods just don't suit some people. I can see how easily people like him can fall through the cracks, we're going through a long stressful slog to support him.

NewUserName2244 · 18/12/2025 12:24

BruachAbhann · 18/12/2025 12:18

I've got a defiant, headstrong, independently-minded child like this. He might have ADHD but is also gifted and slow at handwriting which the psychologist said could make him seem like he has ADHD so have to deal with that first.

It's nothing to do my parenting techniques. My first two were good as gold, compliant, model kids who got on well in school. My third is getting on so badly in school we're removing him and going to home educate for a while to rebuild his confidence and actually teach him stuff. He was so resistant to learning or doing any work despite the high IQ. And he was so stressed all the time. I feel like we've all been released from prison knowing that he's not going back!

He'll definitely be a leader or inventor or some kind of high achiever if we can keep him on the right track, but traditional authoritarian methods just don't suit some people. I can see how easily people like him can fall through the cracks, we're going through a long stressful slog to support him.

He sounds lovely, bright, fun and hard to parent - not unlike my youngest who also wants to be an inventor!

You may already be on this, but have you googled “retained primative reflexes”. The combination of poor handwriting, poor behaviour but extremely intelligent would tick all of the boxes for this…..

BruachAbhann · 18/12/2025 12:31

lifeturnsonadime · 16/12/2025 07:22

Look at PDA techniques and read The Explosive Child OP.

Even if your child is NT there are some good tips to handing challenging children.

My extremely challenging 10 year old (3 broken TVs - kicked walls, school refusal) is the kindest and gentlest adult now (nearly 20 years old) and is living away independently at university.

Things can get better. Best advice is don't battle with them.

Edited

That's great. Any tips on how you managed this? I have that book, still have to read it. Son is not able for school. He's 7. We're taking him out now as it's actually damaging him ( might be that school in particular and the nut job principal though). I live in hope that everything will be ok :-)

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