To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

[andanotheryear]

or quashed by a stern voice
or who cares if you get angry / furious / apoplectic
or who gives a damn about consequences because they live for the moment

aibu

(I’m not)

I'd have had my bluff called with older two with counting and vauge threats - I had to be very carefuly what I threatened - a few time I had to walk miles home or leave before ordering food and curse my mouth.

It paid off when girls had a friend around 10 who was walking to an event and they were all playing up and I threatened we'd turn round if they didn't behave - friend scoffed my girls turned to her and siad oh she'll do it and freind was taken back but they behaved rest of the day for me.

I used to do excuse me beg your parden so they could re-think how the spoke to me usually worked or when DS was a teen humour also defused situations. I found DD1 harder as older teen she stormed out the house a few times - though our cats were useful there as defusing objects.

@andanotheryear If your children don't respond to calm voices, annoyance, consequences or anger; how do you actually parent?
Are you shut in?
Are they in school yet?
If they are in school or nursery, how are they managed there?

Not read the full thread but this saved us.

Hes extremely bright and we had the extreme luck to find a specialist class that is only for 'twice exceptional' kids - ones who are extremely bright and 'different'.

The Duckling was well on his way to complete disengagement with school and increasingly at home. There are challenges at home (father autistic and extremely poor at handling him, I have my issues) but he was assessed as being intrinsically extremely autonomous. Nothing you do makes a difference.

Now, after this school, he's bright, engaged, happy and settled and of you explain to him why he needs to do / not do something he will listen

But it was a matter of finding the right teachers with highly specialised knowledge. We were extremely lucky because I really think he might have ended ip on a very bad path otherwise.

Don’t need anger, consequences and follow through to the bitter end.

cancel the school trip even if you pay full price, don’t replace the gadget, don’t give the £, remove the telly/internet.

be willing to be in the mire as well to teach the lesson.

OP I have one of these and couldn't agree more. DS 1 who is 6 HATES being told off, doing anything wrong, likes quiet time and is highly empathetic. I WAS that smug parent.

Then DS2 (now 4 years) came along and ripped through every parenting technique and hack like a tornado. No SEND or ADHD etc but is just very energetic and quite frankly, doesn't care.

I'm lucky that for the most part he is a lovely boy and plays with his older brother, loves cuddles etc but he just will not be told. I have tried EVERY method of getting him to listen but he will literally laugh at me!

-Giving him 'time out' to calm down. His response? 'OK fine!!' loudly huffs, leaves the room and sits happily playing with his feet. Will then sulkily apologise and do the same again

-No screens if repeated behaviour. 'That's ok, I'll look at a book'

-Warning him several times if he doesn't listen, I will get cross and shout (I rarely shout!). He laughs. Then when I shout, he thinks its hilarious and shouts back at me like its some big game

-Naming feelings and sitting with him, trying to work out why he's not listening? He then will pay no attention to me and ask when I'm going to finish talking.

These are all over small things. I'm lucky that he doesn't ever really tantrum or get angry, just doesn't listen or do basic things we ask like put his shoes on for school or brush his teeth etc.

We have sussed out a lot of it is attention based and he loves to play the clown so ignoring him actually does upset him. It's the ONE tool I have in my armoury at the moment!

I think he's quite empathetic too though so I'm hoping that although he may push boundaries when he's older, he'll have a decent moral compass and will remember kindness to others!

He climbs out of the car seat, pull over put it back on. That’s your first warning, looking
them in the eyes - If you take it off again we will be going home.

does it again, you go home.

do it over and over and over and over again

before you get in the car, remember we wear our car seats for safety. If we don’t wear them we can’t go. Get them to repeat it back to you rinse and repeat.

Similar method for all things

I don’t think anger works unless it’s for urgent danger like fire or running into the street etc.

@Hollyisalrightactuallysorry we are sisters 😂 I do have to remind myself he’s lovely mostly but it can get to me, especially as a lot (not all) of my friends’ children are quiet, well behaved girls.

@beAsensible1 that would be cool if he cared if we can go or not

he doesn’t

Ok and what if where you are going is school, or work, or a doctor's appointment? Most places I have to go are not lovely treats for my children, but requirements. Thus this method would probably encourage seat belt climbing for me!

I don't think the OP is asking for parenting advice, just some recognition that these ideas of consistency etc are trotted out as the final solution and they don't work for every kid.

I mean, I do believe in consistency - I myself am very consistent (/stubborn). But as some examples - the first time I put my wild child to bed in a real bed, they wouldn't stay in. I consistently picked up and put back every time - it was 52 times!! I counted. It took over 2 hours and only ended when they went to sleep on the floor. The first time I tried the naughty step - child got up every single time was placed there. We did this for over an hour and left as had to pick up other child from school.

Then you don’t go. Or you walk there and allow the time for it.

but if they won’t wear the car seat you can’t drive.
or you have consequences when you get home. No tv, no books, no games, dinner and room.

when they ask to go anywhere. We can’t because you don’t wear your car seat. Daddy and siblings will go but we are staying home to do some spring cleaning.

did you keep up with the naughty step?

I do recognise that for some even consistency doesn’t work. Then I’d either go for the tiring out method, redirection, consequences or make the home like a monastery.

@Hollyisalrightactuallysorry
you have defined my youngest child. 🤣

Are you seriously saying not to go to school as a punishment for a child? I mean the car seat thing is academic for me as I rarely drive, but the point about sometimes you just have to do things regardless of recalcitrant children remains.

I am also not asking for parenting advice, we muddle along in our own way. And as I said, I do value consistency. It works very well with one of my children. For the other - well, I'm hoping it has some impact eventually, but it is definitely a matter of picking my battles.

I couldn't get off the trains when they couldn't behave but they could walk rather than get the bus once off and did a few times.

Sometime you have to be somewhere at set time and that's much harder.

I had issue with DS at 3 doing nursury in morning and then not wanting to pick DD1 up later on in afternoon she got hysterical if we weren't already there waiting -I had to pick up a large 3 year old a few times and carry - pushing youngest in pushchair or vise versa - sometime it took till end of road to get him dressed properly. In end I realised had to set out hours earlier and go elsewhere during youngests nap time she had to sleep in pushchair then swing back to school gates.

Naught step was always a no go for mine but natural consquences - tiring out and distraction did still work.

or you walk there

bless you. My sons school is over four miles away on a long country road with no pavements, street lamps and a national speed limit

I ain’t walking.

Sounds tough. Is your son neurodivergent?

The 4 mile walk is something mine did with me at times but if the road is unsuitable with no lights and pavements and there is no route to the school that has then then I don't blame you for not doing it.

Is there time or parks he can be exhausted in prior to pick up so he's more likely to sit quietly - Dsis has to do that with newphew which is hard sometimes as he's in after school chldcare and she just wants to get home - but 10 minute run round nearby park and promise of walk later with dog often gets good behavior in car.

No, don’t think so. He’s full of life and energy and he’s very impulsive so I guess it isn’t impossible. He is improving. But threatening him, getting angry with him, giving him consequences, aren’t very effective or helpful.

Bribary - if you do x y happens - doesn't work either?

My child is pretty easy to parent now but was a very hardwork baby/toddler. I am definitely much stricter than most of her friends parents who are all very 'wet' and 'oh don't do that Timothy'. Most of them are NT but haven't been told no or been told be be bloody quiet sometimes.

I think we have gotten to the point that parents seem incapable of parenting their neurotypical kids effectively so thus people assume parents of ND kids are just being feckless.

My kid isn't scared of me but she knows the fucking stop it look. She's old enough to behave well in public places and not be bloody annoying.

@CatHairEveryWhereNow i think the thing is you have to go with what you have. As it is I’ve got a car seat that’s harder (not impossible) to get out of and is also comfier for him so doesn’t feel the need to escape it much, but I do know most of the ‘advice’ I’ve seen re climbing out isn’t helpful for us I suppose is all I’m saying.

The walk to school would then be eight miles for me and my toddler. Twice a day. Just no. Although I’d lose weight I guess …

I think even with consistency it can just be much harder to get good behaviour from some children than others.

When my neurotypical fairly compliant three year old didn’t want to wash his hands, I teach him why we wash our hands and encourage him with some nice soap. He does it and then goes round repeatedly the importance of hand washing to anyone who will listen. If he forgets, I remind him and he does it. He will always respond to a stern tone.

My extremely stubborn probably autistic 5 year old went through a similar phase. I explain the importance of handwashing. He

• tells me he doesn’t care about germs or getting sick/ his hands are clean / he’s already washed them / he doesn’t believe in germs
• pretends to wash them
• purposefully gets water all over the floor
• hits me
• has a screaming meltdown about handwashing
• when I try to give a consequence like taking his toy cars away, either screaming meltdown or he doesn’t care about his cars etc

We did eventually get there but only really because he’d moved onto another battleground. You do end up picking your battles to focus on safety or extreme bad behaviour rather than nice to haves.

Sometimes consequences work but sometimes he just doesn’t have enough control over his behaviour to respond to them.

I feel like I can be quite a good parent to my youngest but have to work 10 x harder with the oldest and I don’t always get it right because you need endless patience and a lot of different strategies.

I second the responses that say sometimes waiting it out just isn't an option.

It's also infinitely harder when you have a well behaved older child. I would happily wait out my youngest to put his shoes on/get in the car. But my eldest is also waiting patiently and has to be at school.

I would happily walk/get the bus/get up earlier but this means my eldest also has to walk in the rain, get up earlier to be ready etc.

I would happily be consistent and persevere with putting him back to bed each time he gets out when he refuses to go (and this can go on for multiple nights/multiple times) but my eldest then gets disturbed sleep and woken up.

Sometimes you've just got to ride the wild wave and grab at what works at that moment in time - and they are not always MN friendly things!

That's a bummer. I might have tried bribery - the proper sort where you get the behaviour before you hand over the bribe. Psychologists call it "concrete rewards". Five minutes sitting in the carseat with the seatbelt done up on a timer, then stop and hand over a sweetie. And repeat, until journey ends. Most kids have something that they want - though I guess if climbing out of the carseat is the most rewarding thing he can do or he can't hold the thought of the sweetie and restrain himself for five minutes then no, it wouldn't work.

Maybe not use bribery at the end of the day though, because after a fun exciting tiring time a kid just might not have the control left to earn a sweetie. At that time of day you might just have to nail the kid to the carseat distract (a sweetie might do that too!) or get the bus home. On the other hand you're not in a hurry to get to an appointment so "we can stay here all night if we have to" until the kid falls asleep in the seat and off you go...

Most parenting books give a simplified view of "consequences". I read up on motivation theory and learned that "positive and negative reinforcement" don't mean what most people assume they mean. Negative reinforcement means bringing a bad thing to an end (like undoing a safety belt relieves your discomfort, or having a tantrum relieves your inner misery) Positive reinforcement is getting something nice (like getting a sweet or 10 minutes on the computer, or having a tantrum so your parents will give in to you or pay you some attention) Positive and negative reinforcement don't work the same way. So if you're giving a sweetie to soothe or distract from discomfort, you might see "but you're rewarding bad behaviour". Nope. You give a soother before the bad behaviour even starts to distract from the discomfort that you know leads to bad behaviour; and you give a reward after you got the snippet of good behaviour that you asked for. (Well most of the time anyay) That way you don't accidentially reinforce bad behaviour.

My DC found car rides soothing so we didn't have this particular problem but it's all part of what I think of as "extreme parenting". We do whatever we have to do to maintain safety and lead some kind of life, and if our child isn't motivated by exactly the same things as other kids then what we do will look wrong to other parents. We grow a thick skin!

FOUR BLOODY MILES?!?

ugh sorry!

but I do know most of the ‘advice’ I’ve seen re climbing out isn’t helpful for us I suppose is all I’m saying.

I think I found that about a lot of parental advice - though DD1 has ADHD, Dyslexia and dysraxia and it's likely other two have ND of some sort so maybe it was us.

Some of the advice about getting DS and DD1 to sleep was take them for a drive often usually right after us saying we don't drive .

Despite that though and how hard they were in childhood teen years weren't particularly bad and seem to be entering adulthood quite well.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Was it a private school?