To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

She's aged 7? I think no Christmas presents is too harsh for that age no matter the behaviour. Probably easier to say than do, but I'd try and focus on connecting with her over the Christmas break, no screens, fresh air each day and see what the new year brings. Sounds really stressful for you OP and I hope you get some good advice here from people who have similar experiences

In theory, no she shouldn’t have them, but I think once you calm down you’ll feel differently, can you honestly say you’ll feel okay on xmas morning with her siblings opening up presents and her not? I think she’ll likely kick off and ruin xmas.

I do however understand why you wan’t to not give her, her presents. Any chance you can have some time away over xmas either by yourself or with DH even just a night at travelodge just for some peace!

Will stopping a club work, you said you got her football boots does she play, can you stop that?

I feel for you OP it’s a hard one x

Your poor daughter

in fact, I feel enormous sympathy and sadness for all your children

She's 7 and she's 'fallen in with a bad crowd of lads'? and now you're banning Christmas.

Right. I would suggest parenting classes as your own Christmas gift.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

she was 6 at this point? 5?

Hang on, we're not talking about a 7 year old here, are we?

This is a very harsh consequence and one she is likely to remember all her life, which may lead to lasting resentment of you and her sisters.

It sounds as though the consequence based approach isn't working. Perhaps you could try counselling, therapy (I see she is on the CAMHS waiting list but depending on your area that could be years away), talking space, separate space away from her sisters (does she have her own room?), asking the school for Educational Psychology involvement...

I note you say this has been going on for a couple of years (so since she started school). It would be helpful to know what strategies you have tried other than 'consequences' and screaming at her.

Perhaps the OP means 17?!

Is she 7 or your 7th child?!

Age 7 ?
Or youngest of seven children?

No christmas is not going to solve your problems.

Shes 7, youngest of 4

Do you mean Year 7 not aged 7? I ask I can’t fathom a 7 year old falling in with a bad crowd

Oh well then yabu. She’s so little

Poor kid 😢

Her behaviour is communication, something has gone significantly wrong and that’s your fault not hers!!

Fell in with a bad crowd at 6 .. where did she go to school Bash Street ?

Eh

I kind of see where youre coming from

What would christmas look like for you all, how old are your older children? That would influence my opinion.

I would 100% return the nerf gun though, thats gonna cause all sorts of problems otherwise.

It must be a typo and she's 17.

You are just giving her more to be angry about.

I wouldn't do this, especially as she's an a CAMHS waiting list. There's must likely an underlying issue causing her to act out. It doesn't excuse it, but it may explain it.

Edit - just realised she's 7 but most of the above still stands. 7 year old don't fall in with bad crowds though.

This child needs support not punishment.

Ok so she is seven years old.
Witholding presents is in no way going to resolve her issues.
What do you mean "bad lads"?
On camhs referral.implies some underlying issues. Work out what they are. She is a child in need of help clearly.

At 7, I cant imagine her thinking "oh I got no presents because I behaved badly, I know I will be have differently in future". I just imagine her feeling sad and angry and behaving even worse. She clearly needs help to manage her emotions and her behaviour. She does not need an escalating cycle of punishment, more emotions, more bad behaviour. I hope you can both get some help.

And 7 year olds dont "fall in with a bad crowd" - you separate them!

I suddenly feel very old - did she meet these bad lads in her primary school- are they in her school year?

It sounds like she needs a lot of support and understanding not consequences. Hopefully when you get to your CAMHS referral they'll support you, but it may be worth doing some digging into parenting classes specifically for autistic/ADHD kids that your local council or NHS trust provides and ask to complete them ahead of any diagnosis as you've likely got a long wait.

For right now jt sounds like she's pretty dysregulated so I'd have some plans in place for the Christmas break about ensuring she's not got sensory overload, so planning in long walks, quiet spaces, screen free days, etc. to help her manage with the commotion over Christmas and hopefully keep emotions as stable as possible.

Confirmed 7

plus nerf gun? Lego toy.

fairly obvious 7

I had to re-read to check you’d definitely said 7 not 17!
Poor thing, in no way would this be a useful wake up call, and the fact you think it would be, as well as you talking about screaming at her / coming down like a ton of bricks - suggests that you are not getting as much help as you need to parent her effectively? She clearly has additional difficulties - MH / ND / SEN - even if no clear diagnosis.
Don’t cancel Christmas - reach out for support and maybe try to get her in an alternative school? If her previous friendship group was the problem I don’t understand the move to home school, that must be putting much more pressure on you both if you are already struggling.

She's 7 and on the CAMHs waiting list so clearly some neurodivergence is suspected. In which case no traditional punishments are likely to work. You need to educate yourself on whatever the suspected diagnosis is. No Christmas presents is absolutely the worst possible idea.

Thats extreme behaviour for a 7 year old. Have you sought advice on what might help her while you wait for camhs?