To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

She is not likely to behave any better if she feels singled out like this.
you need to reward good behaviour so maybe try that.

Change your parenting style.
She sounds like my child, who has PDA.
Look up low arousal parenting, The Explosive Child (Ross Greene), resources on the PDA society website.

Even if she isn’t PDA a different approach will probably help.

Do not cancel Christmas, that’s not going to help anyone. Learn the skills over time to recognise why she’s doing this and how to limit it.

Whatever her behaviour at home, that’s for you to and DH to deal with. Do not bring Granny into punishing your DD too. DG just wants to love her GC - through good or bad behaviour - and has every right to always give her GC a Xmas present. Your DD also needs DG non-judgemental love on Christmas morning especially when she finds everything else in life a struggle.

7 years old and swearing? Gosh I never even knew any swear words until I I was about 11 and even then I was told off. Nip it in the bud OP.

That’s what I assumed!

Eh your language is describing her like she’s 17? She can’t be 7? Fallen in with a bad bunch of boys? At 7? It makes no sense?

I like this fb for pda

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17nSRAXutm/

OP I can't pretend to understand what it's like to go through this with a 7 year old, but believe me I know what it's like to go through with a teen. I had a terrible time with my teen - the peak was almost two years ago but we are all still feeling the effects.

It's absolutely heartbreaking. I've definitely struggled with my feelings and reactions at time. It's made me suicidal.

So I understand and truly empathise. People who haven't been through it will judge you, it's very hard to get help. I found a great support group on Facebook called pegs I think, have a search about. My teen became very violent. This is your future too if you don't get a grip on this.

No, she’s definitely 7.

You'll punish her, that's ok?

But you won't get her assessed for her MH (Eg ASD or ADHD) because you don't want her to be labelled?

Wow ! 😭

I'm afraid this is on you, OP , not on your child who is SEVEN years old

You want to with hold Christmas presents from a clearly very disturbed and out of control seven year old? Maybe her already feeling unloved and totally rejected is part of the problem.... Sorry OP, but a seven year old only gets like this because they either have a serious disability, or are being badly abused, or somehow feel totally lost. As her parent, give her the same presents at her siblings and work out why she is so disturbed! Is she in pain? brain abnormality? Tumour? neurological condition?

You can't discipline emotions.

Whether the problem is emotions, nurodivergence or something else discipline will not work.

On a side note I have worked in a secondary PRU and they are not what you seem to be imagining. Small classes max 6 but usually 2 or 3. 2 adults teaching and more staff for emotional support if they leave class. Councillors and therapy as standard.

Have you looked at one?

You need to stop imposing your ideas so much and start listening to her? What does she say about her behaviour?

You might like to read my thread under this username about my Dd. She’s now 19, addicted to weed, kicked out by her father and homeless because she’s choosing weed over her family. She’s been arrested twice for shoplifting and stealing from a vehicle. She’s been wild, stealing from family, lying to our faces, violent, kicked out of college after failing most things at school. Police involvement from an early age due to her running away. Things were awful. Still not great. You know what she’s getting for Christmas this year? Love and as many presents as her siblings. She is still waiting for ADHD and autism assessments but at this point it’s so obvious that it’s irrelevant. Punishing her did nothing except hurt her more and she was screaming for help. Push for assessments and get the poor girl some help. She’s 7 ffs. She needs love not punishment. Consequences for unacceptable behaviour yes, nothing as punitive as what you are suggesting. Her behaviour is communicating her distress. They don’t have the words at that age to articulate things. My Dd is coming out the other side but it’s been 12 years of hell. Get her help. Some PRUs are amazing so don’t write that off. She needs and deserves an education plus she has a right to one. She’s being failed and her parents are her advocates.

That all sounds so hard and I'm sorry for you all. Was it a difficult birth with her? I've seen many children improve after seeing a chiropractor who specialises in pediatrics. There is clearly a lot going on but while you are waiting on a possible diagnosis, it wouldn't hurt to try some other support options like this. Good luck.

That all sounds so hard and I'm sorry for you all. Was it a difficult birth with her? I've seen many children improve after seeing a chiropractor who specialises in pediatrics. There is clearly a lot going on but while you are waiting on a possible diagnosis, it wouldn't hurt to try some other support options like this. Good luck.

Home tutoring isn’t the same as home schooling. D7 has been excluded from school. She has a right to education and so has a tutor visit her at home (or might be online).

So I dont know this website at all but was goggling PDA resources and this blog really seemed to kind of match when your going though
https://www.stephstwogirls.co.uk/2019/10/rewards-and-consequences-with-pda.html?m=1

Not having Xmas won’t stop her behaviour though . She will be at the point where she doesn’t care if things get taken away from her (I mean she will care) but she wont change her behaviour. You actually have to do the opposite and shower them in love and affection. One of mine has been difficult due to dad bereavement. He’s 16 now and was being an arse about getting up for college today. Finally up and when dropping him off I brought him a drink from the shop. Now this goes against everything as he should have had nothing from the shop. 3pm he arrives home, I see his hand come round the door when I’m in a meeting he’d brought me a drink back. My point is kindness, being nice, showing love breeds it. If you’re horrid she’s got going to be horrid too.

She's 7, not 15!

How can she fall out with a bad crowd? She's way too young to be hanging out with anyone and left anywhere without supervision.

I get it's rough, but how much trouble can a bunch of 7 year old get into during school hours? (bullying others I am guessing?)

You need to be extremely firm, but cancelling Christmas is a bit far for a little one. Remove access to her presents after christmas if you need, but no present whatsoever? harsh.

I think you need to rethink your thought process. You've labelled her behaviour, even to yhe point of removing 'D'D.

Every behaviour is a communication. She needs connection, one on one time with both of her parents. She needs connection with her siblings, weekly games nights, movie nights.

Seems like all connection has been lost.

I know it must be a battle ground. I know you're overwhelmed. But doing this just puts a bigger wedge between you all, she is 7! She doesn't have the brain development to understand the level of this. Maybe change some of her presents to a hobby you can both do weekly together, to some events for the next few months you can do together, hobby that gets her praise and reward.

Also, if you haven't already, please get some therapy. Work through your feelings on this, you're dealing wjth a lot wjth four kids and then this stuff going on too. Work through it, discuss, offload, find ways to manage your emotions when every single one of us would be struggling given the situation you are in!

I keep thinking this was written by AI. It makes no sense. How does a 6 year old even have enough alone time outside, away from parents and teachers, to "fall in with a bad crowd"? I wasn't even allowed out of the house without supervision at that age. I don't think I started playing outside by myself till I was 8 maybe even 9.

Absolutely don't give her the nerf gun, she will use it against you and they can hurt. Giving her presents shows you still love her and she needs to know that. She's 7 and she's hurting emotionally and acting this out, terrible to live with for all of you and I hope you get the help you all need very soon

You need parenting classes immediately. Your other children are a credit to themselves, not a measure on whether you have work to do yourself or not.

You can't " discipline" behaviour out of her, and by your own admission you have " absolutely lost it" with her, and scream at her while she shows "no remorse".... You can't even keep it reined in yourself let alone ask her to!

You have work to do! And you need to do that work before you punish anything, let alone crush her by not giving her a Christmas! ( I realize Christmas isn't presents before anyone comes at me...but she is SEVEN! ) Children make Christmas!

Your being nasty and reactive.

She doesn't need a nerf gun either....The sensory avenue is the one you should turn down, rather than projectiles...🙄

Your local children's centre hub will be able to refer you to the next running course.

People (your daughter) won’t remember the things you said or did. But she’ll remember the way you made her feel.
She is a BABY. Who is obviously having enormous struggles for whatever reason.
Withholding Christmas would be one of the worst things you could do to the poor kid.

Have you had any parenting support?