To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

It makes no sense unless OP is a really shitty parent.

Are you sure she isn't autistic?

The OP doesn't want the child to be labelled therefore no investigation

Your daughter is 7. She probably still believes in Father Christmas. She will feel terrible and that no-one loves her.

I'm sure you do love her, but this is not what you're showing her.

Not getting her Christmas presents is child abuse and she will distance from you even more.

You are angry with her and you probably have good reason to be, but you're letting your anger colour your behaviour towards her.

Don't decide anything until you've stopped being angry because you're lashing out at her. She is copying your behaviour. You are the grown up here and you're bullying her.

You catch more wasps with honey than vinegar. Try being nice to her and see how she responds. Separate the child from the behaviour. Denying her Christmas presents at this young age will make her think she is worthless. And if you truly think that, then you are most definitely in the wrong.

You need to meet her needs, OP, before you even think about punishment.

Focus on connection, connection, connection.

She can't cope with her life at present. You need to address the reasons why before you blame her. At the moment, you're setting her up to fail.

If this is true, it's another desperately sad parenting thread to add to the ones that seem to have been cropping up recently.

So many children crying out for help and parents who find it easier to label them "bad". It is easier, I know, but your child only has you to fight for them against a system that will grind them down and destroy them.

I would not ban Christmas for a 7 year old as she is far too young.

I would build structure into her day, have clear routines, visual schedules, and advance warnings (“5 minutes then TV off”) reduce battles and make expectations predictable.

Catch and reward the behaviour you want, praise and give small rewards for gentle hands, and staying calm.Help her name her feelings. Don’t be afraid to ask for help from child mental health professionals.

She isn't necessarily ND...

Errr no don’t do this. She’s likely in need of a huge amount of love and reassurance that you’re always going to be there for her. You need to wipe the slate clean and start again and get some help - start by going to the GP. Read books like ‘the explosive child’ or ‘how not to murder your child with adhd’ (it’s better than it sounds!!) You may be finding it tough right now but she is a baby and she needs you to guide her through this. If you take her Christmas away from her, she will see that you’re not with her.

I’ve just read your OP to my Au/ADHD daughter 18.
She said “Is she really going to punish a little kid for being disabled”?

It sounds (with your comments about CAMHS, alternative provision, not doing as she’s told, not having any reaction to consequences etc) like she is ND.
Please don’t punish her for not being able to cope .

She’s so so young - it’s hard to explain things to a child of that age but could you explain to her that she might be autistic? I can remember the moment I knew my daughter was which was when I asked her why she didn’t walk to school with some of the girls in her class. She looked at me and said that she liked to “think about the day ahead and plan it all in her mind”. At that moment I knew - she was surprised when I told her I didn’t need to do that!
She won’t understand that the world isn’t set up (potentially) for girls like her.

I would swap the nerf gun for something less potentially destructive though!

Honestly, if you do this, you’ll lose her forever and there won’t be any going back. She’ll always remember it. She’s too young to understand that cause and effect as the punishment is totally irrelevant to the behaviour.

I’m so sorry, this seem so tough!

My two penneth is that not having Christmas presents is likely to make her worse - especially if she is stubborn!

I wonder if you could do the opposite approach - take her further afield to some clubs with different children, or move schools, or maybe invest in her more over this time (take her to football one on one?)

Focus on praising her for things she does right, and tell her how proud of her you are.

She is so young! And so impressionable as you say. There must be something else going on.

If I was in this situation I wouldn't be spending a fortune on Xmas presents for my kid, I'd be spending most of the money on an urgent parenting course and/ or family therapy. I dont think badly behaved kids respond to "wake up calls" and adults wielding power over them like not getting them any Xmas presents. I would buy them one nice xmas present.

Btw I have been on several parenting courses for my own (difficult) child and have had a number of therapeutic interventions. The parenting courses were offered to me by my local authority and were free and helped me so much, was the best thing I ever did for my family. My child isn't perfect obvs but overall things are so much better than they were.

Are you seriously going to punish a 7 year old with no Christmas presents. She is 7 not 17. She didn't fall in with a "bad crowd" she played with kids her own age who happened to have some behaviour issues. Kids at age 7 her parents could easily have pulled her back from. She sounds like a struggling child who cannot live up to the expectations of her older siblings. She also possibly sounds Neurodivergent or desperate for positive attention. I am actually appalled your even considering doing that. No wonder she has behaviour issues

Oh come on, this has to be a wind-up. In what world does a 7 year old fall in with a group of lads who at 6 or 7 act like thugs and act out of ‘toxic masculinity’?
Nah, not buying it.

She's not anywhere near a teenager!! Shes SEVEN!!!
Seven!!
Not saying she can't have been abused, shes in primary school. She shouldn't be spending any time with these kids outside of school, at all!!

It sounds incredibly stressful but try to see it from her point of view. Nobody loves her, she's been excluded from school, she's not allowed to see her friends, she can't do anything right. She probably hates herself and everyone else. Cancelling Christmas is a bit pointed in that context.

see if you can sit down and have a conversation with her. If you can both agree that things need to change and figure out some things you could do differently to help and some changes she could try to make that are achievable, it would be a start.

7 is possibly on the young end for that but I think doable.

How did you get to the stage of a 7 year old swearing and fighting!

Quite.

My son had an issue with hitting when he was 4. I emptied his room of everything but the bed and every day he hit someone at school he had to sit in his room with nothing for the rest of the day. He came out for meals and to use the toilet. It was really tough and took weeks to work but it did. He very rarely has any bad behaviours now.

Fucking Hell. This is bleak.

Sounds like you need professional help. But certainly cruel not to give her presents. Take the nerf gun back god it will be in your face. Your mum is right. Speak to social services and your GP.

Pindown, basically. Unconscionable. 😞

My advice would be to self refer to social services for a child in need assessment and support plan - they can support with getting traction with CAMHS and also family/ parenting support. Even getting on the referral list to CAMHS is a very high bar so there will be sufficient concerns to warrant this.

I also have a child same age and can’t imagine this scenario - they are so little. Also echo the point above that all behaviour is communication and she’s showing you how she is feeling. It’s really sad but she needs support not arbitrary consequences. Imagine how she will feel that Santa hasnt come. Try and praise any bit of positive behaviour and build connection. Maybe scale back the gifts a little and expectations over Xmas and try and help keep her calm and regulated. I hope things get easier for you.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Well you might get a child who’s compliant in the short term.