To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

We live in a very rough area very high crime rate, not an average 'naice' area at all unfort. The local primary school is not far from a gnarly estate. My daughter is very impressionable, shes what youd call an extreme tomboy and a lot of the boys in her class were (no other way of putting this) looking like thugs in the making since the apple doesnt fall far from tree. Toxic masculinity thing has been drilled into them young

None of my other children had these problems as they were able to make friends with nice children and still behave, youngest has always been very strongwilled and together with these lads it had added fuel to the fire.

Your child is 7, can't cope in mainstream school and is being educated in AP/ home? And has violent meltdowns and poor behaviour?

What assesments have you had done of her needs op?

this is so strange to read. You can't really be blaming a 7 year old for this obviously huge inability to cope with day to day expectations - she must be neurodiverse or have experienced major trauma?

I'm afraid that you need to rethink your parenting but you also need to press the LA to.provide her with an education, unless you are qualified to teach her at home, which doesn't seem likely.
You certainly should not withhold Christmas presents but perhaps need to think carefully about what is suitable for her. I wouldn't buy her anything which is likely to overstimulate her while she is using it.

The only thing this will achieve is to hurt her deeply. She clearly already has some emotional problems and will be aware that she is not liked or accepted within the family - this will cement those feelings and will devastate her. Which will lead inevitably to worse behaviour, more punishment and permanently damaged relationships.

Please, please don’t do this. At 7 she is too young for draconian punishments dragged out over weeks (even if they were effective for older children, which is highly debatable. She needs love, patience, calm and consistent parenting. Age-appropriate consequences in the moment. Lots of attention when she isn’t dysregulated. And I would suggest she needs a developmental assessment as well.

No words.

Another thread where the parent can’t understand that there is a reason that a small child is behaving terribly and only wants to punish the poor child!

I can’t get my head around such thinking or perhaps lack of thinking.

Get to the root cause of why your daughter at only 7 is acting this way and HELP her or get help for her if it’s something you can’t help her with.

Poor little mute is crying out for something!

If she is only 7 I really do think you should self refer to social services for some support. They may be able to help you with signposting things like triple p parenting course, training surrounding neurodivergence and other support. You dont fall in with a wrong crowd at 7 and that be the issue. You are only with friends at school really at 7. If you do the work with a ND child from as young as possible and invest in play therapy plus educate yourself things shouldn't escalate to what you describe. I dont say this to be mean but genuinely to help. Social services are there to support - unfortunately people always think in the negative but you clearly are not managing behaviour well

I can understand why in your frustration you're desperately seeking some form of consequence that will be effective, but this really isn't it. Christmas is over a fortnight away, don't drag a punishment out that long, nor make it something that will likely remain with her for a very long time afterwards. She clearly needs support.

SEVEN?? Bloody hell. Stop her seeing these other children? Why is she so angry? Has she been bullied or abused by these other children?

Ive pushed and pushed to try and get her in another school but theyre all oversubscribed (and with D having exclusions shed probably be low priority), i really dont want her to go to a pru because i feel like the children there would be worse than the ones at her old school and back to square one, but she cant continue at home like this im up the bloody wall

I used to think i was a good mum not perfect, but my older 3 kids have never had these problems, but my youngest has always been difficult even as a baby, shed scream her head off til she went purple and nothing could soothe her . so I think maybe something else is going on, but perhaps ive not wanted to consider it because i dont want to put a label on everything and maybe i foolishly thought i could discipline it out of her...obviously not good enough i dont know why shes so difficult

Exactly this and she is being failed because she clearly isnt having appropriate work done to help her understand herself or to cope at home nor, it would appear, elsewhere (else she wouldn't be struggling so much).

Taking away presents will make this problem worse.

This child clearly has huge underlying problems and you need to get her help not look for cruel punishments.

If my DC were behaving like this at the age of 7 I’d be querying neurodiversity, bullying, abuse. I wouldn’t be assuming they’d fallen in with a bad crowd and were being deliberately willful. She’s 7, OP. What your other children were like is besides the point. She is her own person.

The best advice I've heard is: You child is not giving you a hard time, they're having a hard time.

I've been in the trenches with one of my two dc for almost two years. I know how it can wear you down. Punishment is not the answer. I know that sounds wrong, but it is very outdated to think being strict(er) is the correct parenting approach. OP needs parental support (support group, counselling, parenting classes, breaks from the children) and the child(ren) need similar support.
There are a lot of resources available.

https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/how-we-can-help/

https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/how-we-can-help/get-parenting-support/

https://www.familylives.org.uk

There are a tonne of podcasts as well.
Two on my lust are:

Dr Becky/Good Inside

Calm Parenting / Kirk Martin

scroll through snd pick what is applicable

She needs your love and support more than ever, please make sure you give her lots of one on one time.

I would recommend you start getting into courses for parents of children who are neurodiverse. She needs support!! Go to GP for signposting.

You could discipline it out of her?

Wow.

Maybe try gentle parenting, reaching out to GP for referral for assessments, and educating yourself about neurodivergence. No child is inherently bad. They act up for a reason. It is either ND, or your parenting, or some other trauma, or a bit of it all. Your approach seems to be quite disciplinarian and that rarely works

Please tell me she’s on a waiting list for ND diagnosis.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property

What do Social Services say about it all?

Shes on the camhs waiting list

I really hate the parent shaming on desperate posts like this where the parent is clearly doing their best

We don't know what we don't know which is why we ask for help

Wtf have I just read?!
She's 7 and you're blaming other kids for her being the way she is?
God forbid you take accountability and look at your part in what is going on for this poor little girl.!

Extreme tomboys are often neurodivergent girls that are struggling with every single aspect of their own existence. They are also often a group whose behaviour can’t be adapted and modified by punishments. I know, I was exactly the same as a child and a teen.

your child needs understanding and compassion, not horrific punishments and being left out of Christmas. What you should be doing is presenting everything to her as a choice to remove conflict. Would you like eggs or bacon? Get dressed or brush your teeth? Pizza or nuggets? Shall we brush your hair or do your shoes and socks? Remove all devices like tablets and consoles as these HUGELY affect regulation and are as damaging to ND kids as drugs and porn are. Then work on establishing a routine that works as simply as possible. Work with school, do parenting groups etc so you can show camhs that you have/are doing everything you can so they take you seriously.

I've only skimmed through, but I think people aren't shaming I think they're rightly challenging some of the wording used. The OP may be asking for help, but they've come to AIBU to ask whether not to give a 7 year old Christmas presents to discipline them out of what sounds like neuro divergence, they've not gone to the parenting forum to ask for coping techniques.

"She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all"

"We live in a very rough area very high crime rate, not an average 'naice' area at all unfort. The local primary school is not far from a gnarly estate. My daughter is very impressionable, shes what youd call an extreme tomboy and a lot of the boys in her class were (no other way of putting this) looking like thugs in the making since the apple doesnt fall far from tree. Toxic masculinity thing has been drilled into them young"

OK they're all just seven years old, and I hope I'm way off beam with this but - you seem to be associating her behaviour change around the same time as she started hanging around with "thugs in the making"* *who you consider to have already been drilled into "toxic masculinity" even at this young age.

Deep breath. Is there any possibility that she has been sexually assaulted? It's not unknown for teenage girls to react to sexual assault by going off the rails.