To tell my sister I don’t want to see her anymore if she doesn’t discipline my nephew for biting me?

[IGrewUpInTheFallOut]

My sister is a single mum to two children - my nephew, who is 14, and my niece, who is 13. My nephew has autism and her husband left when he realised how tough things would be.

I’ve just got back from a weekend of babysitting for her which has been a bit of a nightmare. My nephew used to be quite violent and angry, but my sister put him into kickboxing when he was 7 and he’s flourished, and it has really helped him regulate himself.

When I arrived yesterday, she warned me that he was quite overstimulated and that I just needed to follow the basic routine (get him to bed at a reasonable hour). I left him to his own devices until I went into his room at about 10:30 and asked him to put his iPad down and go to sleep.

He immediately grabbed hold of me and bit my arm, it must have been about twenty seconds before he let go. He was screaming at me to leave his room by that point, so I did, and went downstairs. I told my sister when she got home today, and she said she would have a word with him.

I’ve just got home and seen how bad it is (I’ve attached a picture). I sent it to her and asked how she had dealt with it and she said she asked him, but he said he felt overwhelmed and didn’t want to go to sleep, so he lashed out. She says that in her mind, that’s the end of it and she won’t be pushing it further as he can’t help feeling overwhelmed.

I’ve said in that instance I don’t feel comfortable being around him again and I won’t attend family Christmas. Now she and my mum are telling me that I’m selfish and I will ruin the Christmas period for everyone if I don’t come.

AIBU to draw this line in the sand?

OP, the "reasons" for the abuse you have received on this thread are almost certainly just internalised misogyny (a staple of this site) and projection of their own miserable lives onto you, plus a healthy dose of bitter jealousy that you don't have to parent a violent teenager. Or they might just be online trolls who sniff out a hint of vulnerability and type one handed from their basement.

But the reasons they're abusing you really don't matter.

The reality, as I said before, is that you were attacked in a disgusting, stomach turning way, could not possibly have predicted the assault, and did nothing at all to deserve it.

The attack was carried out by a male who is bigger and stronger than you.

His reasons aren't relevant at all either - because you could not possibly have anticipated him biting you and have absolutely no way of knowing if he will savage you again.

His mother and grandmother then told you to suck it up.

Minimising and dismissing an attack, refusing to acknowledge your feelings or rights after a violent attack is a form of abuse.

So now you've been both physically attacked and emotionally abused by family members.

You're now rightfully afraid he might assault you again and the minimisers have given zero indication that they care at all about your fears, feelings or have any strategies to keep you safe.

So of course you can and must choose not to be around people who have given zero indication that they care about your safety or your perfectly valid fears and feelings and you can certainly quite justifiably choose not to have to sit in a room with the male who assaulted you.

And that's that.

Agree, except he is capable of killing a woman right now. A single hard punch can kill a woman, what if the next time he bites her on a vein, or punches her in the throat or head, or kickboxes her in the ribs or pelvis?

It does not have to be a sustained attack to kill a woman or child, just one solid blow can easily do it. He could also kickbox or punch her and accidentally smash her into furniture, a window, a kitchen countertop.

The reality is that all violent attacks have the potential for permanent, life changing injuries or death. People who have not spent much time around violent males often fail to realise how terrifying and threatening they actually are.

To be honest, I am very, very concerned for his poor sister.

The age of criminal responsibility is 10.

Exactly.

Yes. As I've said elsewhere on this forum the teenage boy who assaulted me gave me one punch in the stomach. The next day, I had a (very early) miscarriage.

A colleague's partner was a former police officer. He used to say that teenage boys were often more dangerous than grown men, specifically because they were often either unaware or heedless of the physical consequences of hitting someone hard.

When my late husband was a schoolboy in the north of Scotland, one boy at his school kicked another. Just once. The other lad died.

I'm so sorry he did that to you. That's just awful.

I wonder whether fear for her own safety is keeping his mum from addressing his behavior.

The safety (physical and emotional) of his sister is a big issue. Really hoping she has protection and support.

It really is not doing him any favors if he is being allowed to threaten and injure people. He will risk police involvement or violence from others.

My SIL has diagnosed MH issues and was shielded by PIL. No violence but frightening rages and frankly malicious meddling if things are not exactly as she thinks they should be. Initially I thought PIL were protective and kind. Now they are reaching the end and SIL cannot tolerate others and is extremely difficult to be around. She has terrified my DC and I have drawn a boundary. Future difficulties are fairly obvious. SIL never left home and did not tolerate carers coming to the house when PIL needed them (a welfare issue I pushed DH to address). It is extremely difficult but maybe some earlier boundaries and not tolerating certain behaviors may have actually created a better situation.

So what will happen decades down the line? In many cases the sister or DIL is expected to take on the consequences, despite the risk to their own DC (if they have them)?

Edited to add: I know I have a serious DH problem. But am trapped as I cannot risk shared custody. One of the major issues is he sticks his head in the sand and will not draw boundaries.

Spot on.

Agree with everything

@notallwhowanderare

Bang on.

This thread reminds me of a friend I used to have who worked in residential care for sometimes violent children with species needs. She said she would go to work after a weekend off and know exactly which children had been home for the weekend, and that it would take several days to get their behaviour back on track.

Your sister is, sadly, out of her depth with this young man. Do whatever you need to keep yourself safe physical and emotionally.

I know nothing about parenting a child with those problem but I'm staggered that he hasn't even been asked to apologise.

she would go to work after a weekend off and know exactly which children had been home for the weekend, and that it would take several days to get their behaviour back on track.

That will usually be down to the change and disruption. Possibly also emotional distress at having to leave home again. Not necessarily anything to do with parenting skills or lack of them.

I know nothing about parenting a child with those problems

Yes.

but I'm staggered that he hasn't even been asked to apologise.

Apology is a specific issue for some children espeically children with ASCs. But I'm not aware of training or specific techniques to deal with it. DC's school and I had to improvise (and it took years)

As several PPs have alluded to, the issue here is the 'reason' for his violence doesn't alter the outcome. A 14 year old boy can indeed do serious damage and in a couple of years even more so. This is a very extreme example but look at the case of Jonty Bravery. He was 17 when he threw that boy off the balcony of the Tate Modern. The child has life changing injuries and easily could have died. His autism has not altered that fact, nor that he is now serving a life sentence in Broadmoor.

Yes, perhaps apologies are difficult for some autistic children, but it is nevertheless incredibly important not to send the message that it's ok to attack someone because you are overwhelmed. I think that is setting that child up for a huge amount of trouble in the future and does a disservice to both them and the people who might end up on the receiving end, in this case the OP. All she's asking for is recognition that this was not just fine because of his state at the time/disability.

She was quite clear in her own mind it was parenting issues. She knew the parents and knew which ones would come back to school out of control.

"This thread reminds me of a friend I used to have who worked in residential care for sometimes violent children with species needs. She said she would go to work after a weekend off and know exactly which children had been home for the weekend, and that it would take several days to get their behaviour back on track."

That is not necessarily the fault of the parents. Change is difficult for some children and can be enough to cause problems. My severely autistic son ( who lived at home) had problems for several days in school after every school holiday.

Have you ever tried parenting a child with complex needs, complex enough to be in residential care?

I’m sure there are “parenting issues,” on occasion - it’s a very very difficult task.

I understand the point you are making but I'm finding it impossible to believe that a boy in mainstream education doing martial arts training with the physical and mental control that sport requires is incapable of being asked to apologise to his aunt for hurting her.

He definitely sounds capable of delivering an apology, I’m just unsure if he’s capable of meaning it unless it’s immediately after.

That’s just absolute speculation, but lots of autistic children - including the verbal ones, struggle with the social concept of an apology, and if they do feel remorse only feel it in the moment.

I can only use my experience with my own child as an example, and he is complex. But - he does feel remorse, in that he cries when he knows he’s done wrong, and apologises physically with an arm stroke or something. He does sometimes verbalise “sorry.” But by tomorrow - he’s forgotten all about that, and asking him to apologise would be like asking him what sound purple makes.

If OP’s nephew has the same lack of understanding, and after that fact isn’t actually sorry, I don’t think the apology is even useful.

It’s OP’s sister who needs to be apologetic for leaving her in that position with a child she knew was overstimulated.

It’s OP’s sister who needs to be apologetic for leaving her in that position with a child she knew was overstimulated.

I agree, I think you have to go right back to the root cause to try to understand where the dysregulation came from. It could be a build up of things that are not avoidable, in which case the OP shouldn’t feel guilty tripped into babysitting again.

I have every sympathy for the DS and nephew too though - I have an autistic child too and most days are just existing and trying to keep things from being worse. I would love to teach my child lessons and about consequences but I can’t get to the first step of even asking him to listen. All I can do is make home a safe place and bit by bit he is maturing. Though it’s so often one step forward two steps back. I fear the future but I don’t think it’s helpful to catastrophise and say what happens when he is an adult and is beating everyone up or abusing women? It sounds like the nephew has a positive outlet in martial arts and that he had a rare aggressive moment. If it was a regular occurrence I would be very concerned.

I agree the sister should apologise, but also think the son should too.

You might be right that by the next day he doesn't feel remorse anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that an apology is owed. It's an important life skill to have and smooths over a lot of social friction.

All children require training/prompting to offer apologies but that doesn't mean we let them get away with not saying sorry.

The more often a skill is practiced, the easier it gets. OP's nephew might require more practice because of his autism, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't even be asked to try.

Especially as you say he's high functioning autisum I'm surprised that through his kickboxing, which as anyone knows is a discipline sport he hasn't learnt to an extent to control his outbursts as it's well known to teach self/emotional control and respect to others.

No im sorry this shit of making excuses for autistic kids who should know better drives me mad. My son was subjected to pure terror from an autistic boy sat next to him ar school , he would threaten to stab my son with his pencil and constantly attacked him. The school tried to make me feel bad by saying this boy has a right to attend main stream school. Yes and my son has a right to feel safe at school ! I can’t blame you for being terrified

He is alread physically attacking adult women (at least one that we know of) so it's not catastrophising at all to wonder what comes next.

I don't have much patience for women who try to downplay vicious male attacks on other women.

He appears never to attack men and OP added "It’s largely at home, around his mum, sister, and me, that this happens"

I have noticed that aggressive males, with or without cognitive challenges always seem to know who the vulnerable females/children/other vulnerable people are when push come to shove, or bite comes to arm.

His grandmother has also also acknowledged the possibility of his violence when OP noted that she babysits "Very rarely. Funnily enough she thinks it’s too much of a risk because he could overpower her!"

In my life experience (which does include spending time around males with cognitive challenges) a male with cognitive challenges, be it autism or anything else, very rarely assaults someone capable of defending themselves effectively. It also rarely happens in front of witnesses who could actually overpower him.

And be that as it may, whether the nephew was unable to prevent himself from viciously assaulting OP or chose his moment as he knew she could not defend herself, she simply and understandably does not feel safe around him anymore, and is justified in removing herself from the male who assaulted her and the relatives who don't care about her perfectly reasonable fears and feelings.

That has absolutely nothing to do with OP’s nephew. Unless we’re implying that all of them are the same, and are terrifying.