I got shouted at in the gym today, AIBU?

[ShakenUpandUpset]

I was at the gym today and I got shouted at twice within the space of half an hour.

The first was for entering the women’s only space (I’m a woman, albeit a short and fat one). A woman came up to me and started accusing me of not being a woman, and essentially being a man. I was in a baggy shirt but I also think I look pretty “womanly”, I have long hair, obvious boobs, I was wearing leggings and very obviously don’t have a bulge or anything like that. When I answered and said yes I was, she seemed satisfied but spent much of her time glaring at me across the room and tutting loudly whenever someone else looked at me.

it’s just left me feeling totally shaken and upset. I am a woman and I shouldn’t be questioned, I have always known I was pretty ugly but this has just confirmed it for me and I never want to go to the gym again, because what if someone else makes the same mistake but gets even more angry?

Why would someone assume a 5’3 and a bit woman with long hair and boobs and no visible cock and balls through the leggings - so gender conforming if you believe in that shit - was a man? Because they are overweight? Doesn’t make sense unless they were just spoiling for a fight or mentally ill.

Obviously out of order behaviour but what was the response when the OP presumably went ‘eh clearly I’m a woman’. Most people wouldn’t be left in any doubt once the mouth gets opened and up front and personal.

Funny though that the fifth? was it response and subsequent ‘blame the Terfs in so many words’ posts was from our resident TRA who argues for men to be in women’s spaces and has just come off the back of another thread where they told a rape victim that trans identifying men’s ‘distress’ was more important than hers being in spaces with men.

Oh and the other one who wades in with same has also popped up with ‘I get challenged all the time because I look sooo gender non-conforming (but also has an issue with women discussing not wanting men in women’s spaces).

Women who look like women and women who apparently look like men both now can’t win it seems!

Call me a fucking cynic 🙄.

If you decide not to keep going there/the gym's response to the incident is lackluster, I'd write a very public scathing review about their handling of that incident so others don't get put in your position. That would likely light a fire under their arses.

You poor thing. You don't mention what the second time was, but the first was horrible. Put it behind you and do something very nice for yourself. Btw I'm sure you're not ugly.

It’s quite interesting to see so many people criticising the woman’s behaviour here for pulling up who she perceived to be a man in a woman’s space to be honest.

Not because I disagree- she shouldn’t have behaved that way, but because on other threads about trans/men in women’s spaces there are always hundreds of replies from women confidently claiming they would challenge any man they saw in a female only space- and they absolutely should do that, and other women encouraging them to do that.

If people are going to be encouraged to protect/guard female only spaces from anyone they perceive to be a man, which I don’t think is inherently a bad thing, then unfortunately but unavoidably this kind of thing is going to happen sometimes- people will get it wrong.

I’m five three, no half 😢 and I have as much right to be in a gym as anyone else. I’d complain.

Trans woman are far more likely to be assaulted than you. They are women. You are just nasty.

Yes 🙌

It's not that I don't like them- they can trigger instant migranes for me and can lay me up for the rest of the day. I'm ok with people wearing fragrances near me most of the time, but really sensitive to just sprayed fragrance in the air.

I use the gym to swim, my going home to change options are pretty limited.

I don’t agree with PPs that women have the right to defend their spaces by aggressively accusing other women of being men. How are we supposed to prove it FGS?

She’s not protecting women. She’s absolutely trampling all over women’s freedom to go about their business without being harassed. Shame on her.

But isn’t this the big problem it highlights then? There have been many other threads about men in women’s spaces where women have been very open about the fact that they would confront a man in a woman’s space, with hundred’s of other replies encouraging them, telling them how important it is that we challenge this. In theory I don’t disagree, any woman should feel able to challenge a man in a female only space- absolutely.

But unless we all start walking around naked, there is always going to be a margin for error there on who any individual see’s as a man or a woman.

I completely understand this, but I think the OP was upset because she was shouted at because of it.
To most people, using deodorant after showering is a normal part of personal care. If someone asked me would I mind not spraying it then I would happily comply without question. I only use roll on deodorant so I don’t cause anyone bother from a blast of a scent they dislike, or have them reaching for an inhaler.
I am currently going through chemo, but would never shout at my colleague not to spray her beloved Alien perfume because it makes me want to vomit, and then vomit some more. I would explain it was triggering me now and would she mind not wearing it on the increasingly few days I am in.
If the response you get is ‘Fck you, that’s your problem’, then yes, that’s different. I think most people are reasonable and, like the OP, will understand.
Also, the OP had just had a very upsetting experience in the same changing room earlier. It’s very true we don’t know what a stranger has gone through, and this woman shouting at her probably made her feel worse. Would it really have hurt her to have pointed it out in a nice way?
OP I’m so sorry this happened to you 🩷

And this is how we know that the problem stems from trans activism.

Can you begin to imagine reading comments like, "unless we all start walking around naked" in the context of women feeling safe in a single-sex space just 15 years ago, before this movement began? Never mind that it wouldn't be necessary, it would look downright weird and creepy. Ditto challenging a gender-non-conforming woman on the basis that she may be a man.

It infuriates me when activists condemn women for so-called "policing femininity" when they've forced women into doing this - it's precisely these outward signifiers of femininity that so many of us have fought to resist and reject for years, as wholly unwanted, and entirely unrelated to femaleness.

To pressure us into associating them with femaleness once again in this way, and then condemn us for so doing, is one hell of a move.

I imagine she came from the FWR board.

👏 👏

This, too, reflects the issue. Misrepresentation of stats and judgemental hyperbole creating fear-mongering.

Re: the stats, I've only seen studies that conflate 1) transwomen and transmen or 2) all LGBTQ+ individuals, or 3) physical and verbal "violence", or 4) that use hate crime measures while failing to acknowledge that women can't be subject to hate crime (one popular theory, with some evidential foundation I understand, being that the proposal that women are added was rejected on the basis that the police service simply couldn't cope with the numbers).

If there's a reliable source out there that doesn't fall into one or several of these traps, I'd be interested to see it.

Re: the hyperbole, I honestly don't see what was "nasty" in the post quoted, except in the misogynistic Trumpian sense! I mean, the irony of typing the personal attack, "You are just nasty" under a post that supports the principle of female-only spaces, condemns the shouty woman and empathises with OP, really rather speaks for itself.

Oh, that's terrible!
Of course this means we must let every man and boy have access to naked women and girls whenever they want.

It was a women’s only workout space. No naked women.

i also don’t see where I’ve said that I think that.

Spraying in changing room - not cool
Shouting at you - also not cool

But the shouting is worse than spraying. Definitely complain.

Have RTFT (or skimmed, at least) now - always try to before commenting.

OP, I can see how distressing it was for you and am so sorry you went through this. I'd second other posters' comments that this was certainly (not even almost certainly, but absolutely certainly!) about the shouty woman and not you. It's such strange behaviour. I don't like speculating about eg. mental illness (and still less about FWR board posters - if anyone drops by, you'll see that we tend to be the ones resisting the personal insults and aggression - just like we resist any policing of femininity!) but rest assured that it wasn't rational behaviour.

FWIW, I've only had the courage to set foot in gyms twice, each time for a tour, before scarpering in terror. Kudos to any regular gym-goer who doesn't fit the gym-bunny stereotype! OP, your resolve has (and I genuinely mean this) actually edged me an inch or two closer in my resolve to try another gym tour and maybe, just maybe, actually pay a joining fee this time around... (before, no doubt, not attending for several wasteful months, but it would be progress... of a sort... right?!)

Oh, also, firmly with team limit-deoderant-spraying. Bad memories of choking on the cool girls' Impulse after PE lessons. (It's probably not helped the gym phobia).

I’m so sorry that happened to you. That woman was completely in the wrong and should be mortified and ashamed. This is why I find all the anti-trans arguments re toilets etc difficult because what are we going to do? Inspect people’s private parts before they enter somewhere? I’m all for feminism and protecting women but I also think people need to chill a bit. Unless someone is being obviously offensive/creepy/harassing people in any way then mind your own business about what their gender/sex is because, who cares?

During a bad snow storm last year I nipped into the toilets in Tesco only to be confronted by a woman who said I was in “the wrong toilets” and looking down her nose at me. The snow had come very suddenly but I always have spare warm clothes in the car in winter (I’m always caught out in bad weather!) so chucked them on. I was wearing navy jogging bottoms, an old coat of my partners and a black bobble hat. Granted, I looked as though I was wearing stereotypical ‘male’ clothes. But Christ. What do we do then? Carry a skirt around for times when we want to use the ladies toilets? Or just go in the men’s if we’re ’dressed that way’. It was bizarre; I didn’t know what to say. How do I explain that I’m a woman? What if I had a flat chest? Do I drop my knickers to prove it? Absolute weirdo imo

I honestly just feel a bit lost. I do totally understand that I’m not feminine or conventionally attractive but that’s exactly why I wanted to use the women’s only space

Dear goodness. Enough with the listing of hypothetical "what-we-could-do"s - your knicker-dropping inspections above are frankly really unsettling.

Needless to say, there's no need for any of this. Just:

1. Empathise with female victims of male violence who feel unable to share spaces with males and are now finding their freedom of movement limited as well as with trans people.

2. On the basis of, then

a) Support the social contract of male- and female-only spaces (this meant that, just 15 years ago, your post would have been met with raised eyebrows at least as all we needed was a simple, shared understanding of the law, and that the law would, bar an inevitable minority of exceptions, be followed)

and

b) Campaign for improved provision of third spaces, whether fully enclosed rooms or mixed-sex spaces for those content to use them.

3. Meanwhile, don't fear-monger. It doesn't help either of these vulnerable groups, or women like the OP, and risks coming across as vicarious.

Yeah that one is annoying.

Unless you are asthmatic or otherwise affected by sprays, you might not see why it's an issue, BUT quite a few people have explained the issue now, so can't you just accept it IS an issue for many?? Just because your gym doesn't have signs up, doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Given you say it was 3 small sprays, she MAY have over reacted, but she MAY be very sensitive to it.

(by the way, body spray doesn't mask the smell of BO, it just adds a sickly sweet smell to the mix & makes it more unpleasant)

I can't believe a woman carried on like that about you being a man??? How incredibly rude!! Some people feel so 'empowered' to challenge others now they feel unable to control themselves. Maybe she'd left her glasses in her locker!

Don't let the rude 'woman' put you off going to the gym. I know that's easier said than done, but the more you practice not giving a fuck, the easier it gets!!

I used to go to the gym to build muscle/get fit/ etc etc all the usual. Now I go, as I had a stroke, for rehabilitation exercises. I potter about doing what I can manage, looking ineffectual & pathetic, I'm sure many wonder what the actual point is if they notice what I'm doing. But I've had to learn to not 'give a fuck' & get on with it.

I'll catch up with the rest of the thread now. I hope you've reported her by now.