DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

Exactly. The boy's Mum, herself is asking about Conduct Disorder and his phone is full of porn!!

That should tell you everything you need to know about this situation.

How big is this farm if she was on the opposite side of it to him and pictures were taken or have I misinterpreted the situation?

This! some of the comments on here are shocking.

Unfortunately I don't think there is an agricultural college near, we live in a small market town and he'd need to get the bus, I don't think there's one in driving distance either tbh.

It is a shame about him not being allowed to do art, he was disappointed, art was his first choice and for his other slots he picked ones he wasn't passionate about because he didn't know what else to pick so now he's left with ones he doesn't want to do. He was quite angry with his twin for not picking it because if she had maybe it would've been able to run but I tried to explain one extra person wouldn't have made much difference. Sending him to a difference secondary would be an issue now too as they'll have picked options and even if they are running it it could be full

I'm unsure about if he could be involved in county lines but he never has anything new or anything which would be signs. He just keeps getting himself into trouble.

I have briefly talked to him this evening about why he doesn't want to come home and he said he hates his siblings especially his twin, school, me, sharing a room and how it's unfair because his twin doesn't etc. I don't know how to fix any of those, I don't want to just lose him, we did have a good relationship previously

This is a local one to me that offers a 14-16 programme

https://www.peterborough.ac.uk/courses/14-16-year-10-programme-2/

A happy childhood and trauma are not mutually exclusive!! I feel that you have the false impression that trauma means huge terrible stuff like being beaten everyday.

Children can experience trauma in the most stable and loving of households. But also, his formative years were marked by a mother suffering domestic abuse. My mind is blown that you don’t think this would have a long term impact on you all. Have you had therapy yourself?

You may think you’re fine, but if you really just can’t understand where your son’s issues are coming from you need to do some serious reflection. Your trauma will have been passed on to him. He will anlso experience is own trauma from two parental breakups plus all the typical stuff, teachers, friends, wider family. All of this shapes children in ways they are totally unware of.

Also - right now is still his childhood. It is not happy. He is not having a happy childhood and you are at a fork in the road, but there are things you can do to hold on to him. I highly recommend the book Hold On To Your Kids by Gabor Mate. I sense that you may be avoidant and probably for good reason, but unless you and your children can heal the future is going to be so hard.

As pp put it more astutely: “Although he was very young when his dad left, or you left the dad, it was still a trauma and would have had a big effect. With gentle respect, I'm not getting the impression that you are fully accepting this and appreciating that those wounds needs to be addressed as part of addressing his behaviour.”

Fgs the bad crowd why keep blaming others. The other parents are probably saying op son is the bad crowd. Everyone tries to blame each other
They are all equally bad.

Ask him wonder what they think of him.Hes not exactly pleasant to be around is he.

He has trauma. What you have described of his just 15 years is trauma.

His bio Dad doesn’t know where he lives. He’s had a big life adjustment with his other father figure.

I think you are making light of the fact he’s lost two father figures.

Do you guys talk about sex? Not porn use but actual sex and masturbation?

I think he needs to feel heard right now and no one is listening.

I would.

Abuse is passed down in families through trauma and exposure not blood.

It isn’t an either/or. Genetics and environment each have a part to play. Nature loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger.

Personality disorders are one of the better studied psychiatric fields, and the research overwhelmingly points to them being modestly to moderately heritable.

Your comments are really worrying and are a great example as to why female victims of sexual assault often don’t come forward.

you have said the girlfriend should ‘ignore’ what happened, that she’s a liar even though the dad caught him out in a lie, said op should go in all guns blazing saying she should be over ruled’ even though it sounds like she is a good worker which is vital in a farm and ops son is at best pissing about with a sucky attitude, at worst a predator in the making. I doubt the farmer wants to lose a good worker and replace with moody teenager who hasn’t done much apart from cause trouble.

and in the meantime he deserves kisses and cuddles. WTAF??? Why do some woman hate women?

Did you call the Early Help Assessment ppl for your area yesterday @CuriousVital ? What did they say?

I do agree with the others, he's lost two father figures, through no fault of his own. He won't know how to process that. I'm not sure OP has the skills or the awareness to help him through trauma like that.

He can't find any value in himself or in his life. All avenues are shut that he was interested him or validated him in some way. Art is a no, his old father figure is a no, he has no interest in school so that's a no. What else does he have to get up for every day? He has no goals, no dreams, no aspirations to achieve anything. No wonder he's sliding into other forms of attention seeking. Any attention is better than no attention. At least now he's got your attention OP.

OP I really hope you get some professional help. Your DS is in a bad way and needs support.

@Sussexswain I find your appraisal of my post quite insulting. You've jumping to one mighty conclusion.

Unless I've misread the OP's post, all she described was the girlfriend of her brother saying her son was following this girl around the farm, from a distance.
Maybe, in his simple mind, he was looking to talk to her and didn't quite know how? They accused him of taking a photo, but it's not on his phone.
And if he did take a photo- so what?
Could you explain how you get from that to sexual assault? And to label him as a predator?

For all you and I know, this could all be a conspiracy between OP's brother and his girlfriend to get rid if this boy because they dislike him.

Yes, he deserves affection but you clearly can't see that and are too quick to label him based on what could be a made-up version of events. OP only has other people's sides to go on.

@HerLivingontheHill I thought that about the alleged photos.
That's why suggested everyone (mum, grandad, teen, uncle and the girlfriend) all sit down together to talk about it.

That doesn’t mean he didn’t take photos and delete them. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t pretending to take photos as a way to intimidate her.

Context matters. This is a kid that has a history of physical aggression and misogyny. That is currently spouting misogynistic venom. It’s surprising that you’re choosing to ignore this. Being 15 does not make him harmless.

“Although there was no evidence on his phone that he had taken a photo, my dad did believe her over him due to his behaviour toward girls here and the underage sex and misogyny”

“And RE the photo incident, DS shouldn't have been anywhere near my brothers girlfriend at that time, he had no need to be as what he was meant to be doing was in a separate part of the farm to her. And my dad did catch him running back to where he was supposed to be so he must’ve spotted my dad and that shows he was doing something he shouldn't have been”

“She said he was wandering around, she asked if he was ok and he told her he didn't need her, he was looking for my brother and not her and she explained that he was off elsewhere and asked why and he told her to follow him because he needed help then when they got there he seemed to change and asked her why she was there, he doesn't need her, she wouldn't know what to do etc and then held his phone up to her as he he was taking a photo and when she asked if he took a photo he ignored her then after she went back to where she was and he kept wandering around near her as she was working for seemingly no reason at all but he was making her uncomfortable and she asked him to go back to where he needed to be and he ignored her just didn't go back until he decided to himself (presumably when my dad saw him running). Whenever she tried to move away from him he'd just follow her and be in her area again. My dad does believe this version of events but no photo was found but who knows he could've hidden it somehow as teens are much better at tech than us.”

He’s exhibiting escalating patterns of behavior that are deeply concerning, that suggest that without intervention he could escalate into being a serious danger to women.

Violent offenders rarely emerge fully fledged in adulthood, rather the signs are there from early on. This is the time to recognize the red flags and take action, and that also means acting to ensure the safety of the woman he’s targeting. Downplaying it doesn’t do him, or anyone, any favors.

He followed her and got on her space. She does not need, nor apparently does she want to sit down with him. And when her boyfriend talked to him - in OPs own words his vocabulary was misogynistic.

@Sussexswain

for fucks sake, we don’t ignore behaviour from a male that makes a female uncomfortable!!
having an absent father does not give this male carte Blanche to intimate a female.
END OF!

Both those posts above are from the girlfriend's point of view and it could be likely she's jealous of him getting attention from his grandad.

@Sussexswain I don't need lectures from you on sexual assault. I've been assaulted twice in my life. Once in a street early evening, the other in broad daylight on public transport.
Don't dare tell me I'm minimising this kind of behaviour.

I just think too many people are being naive and not looking at the far bigger picture of this boy and his issues and too quick to label him as a sexual predator.

It sounds a bit like Andrew Tate and his views.

FFS why are you making assumptions that the girlfriend is lying when OP and and her father believe her? As OP stated, her son lied about his actions that day saying he had not moved when clearly he had as he had seen.
why would you automatically assume the woman is lying when all evidence does not point in that direction?

i am not lecturing you - i am categorically saying you are minimising her feeling because SHE. DOES. NOT. WANT. TO. TALK. TO. HIM. This is her work place and he followrd her. Got in her space and made her uncomfortable. When he has been challenged on that he has made misongynistic comments so why the hell would she want to sit down and have a nice chat??? Jesus wept

And you are wrong - they are not from the girlfriend’s point of view. The OP has been very factual and put both points across and puts the conclusion of the grandfather following his investigation and knowledge of both people. One is his worker who he clearly has both a family and professional relationship with and one is his grandson who has acted like an arse for 3 weeks and this sounds like the cherry on the cake. Why are you so determined that this thug who throws brick, is misongynistic to his sister and girl he had under age sex with, throws bricks, steals ect is innocent. I do not doubt he has had a lot of trauma to get this point but does not minimise what he has done.

Definitely leave him there

And the female worker just has to be uncomfortable. Brill. SMH 🤦‍♀️