DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

I do think you need to seek professional help and support OP I don’t think this is something for you to manage alone.

the behaviour towards girls/women is pretty worrying but also means that interventions from you won’t do much as he clearly does respect women, or value their opinions so it will fall on deaf ears.

id look into mentorship and behaviour programmes for you boys his age. But id seriously contact Ss for early help or even signposting to groups for support

I wouldn’t discount nature playing a role in addition to his negative life experiences tbh.

This is heartbreaking for everyone involved, so sorry you’re going through this OP

He is showing worrying signs of misogyny towards women. He also seems to have no empathy and might have some psychopathy. That's OK but it needs to be assessed and looked at and worked with so he doesn't fall into a life of crime. It sounds like that's where he may be heading as nothing so far seems to prevent him from pushing boundaries again and again and again.

I would get a dumb phone, ie, a phone with no internet access or camera, like an old Nokia and take the mobile phone away. He can still message and call people but he can't put women at risk. He's obviously been desensitised by numerous porn media and therefore women may not be safe around him.

OP, he doesn't fit in your household anymore and is best around another man (assuming your Dad can actually physically handle him?). He may become a physical danger to others around him at some point.

He's clearly unhappy, deeply unhappy in himself and in his life. At 15 sharing a bedroom is tough, especially if he suffers for emotional disregulation which it sounds like he does.

He needs a lot of help to get him to place of being able to self-soothe without the need to externalise his energy/frustration/disappointment and not getting his needs met 'this moment' which materalises in rough deviant behaviour towards those around him. And that takes time with someone like him.

He can't unlearn all that overnight. it's taken him years to reach this place and he may have been born like that due to being early born. He needs a lot of work. Contact those places and see if you can get help near your Dad instead and get him on board there with some sort of intervention.

He needs help. School can come later. School is the least of your worries at the moment I'd say. At the moment you're hoping to stop him ending in a life of crime as this is where he's headed at the moment.

I agree with others too, he's a risk to your other children. You really need to take it seriously. Imagine if he did something to one of your other kids? It would break the family apart forever. You can't come back from that, not really.

He had a happy childhood, he doesn't remember his bio dad and tbh when he was in his life he was very hands off anyway. But he got along with my youngests dad, when we were together we’d do one on one time with each child whilst the other had the others. But we’d also do family things. When he started refusing to go to my ex’s it was me and him at home when the others were with him and I tried to have 1 on 1 time with him but he refused. I've tried consequences, love, tough love, taking his things but nothing works.

Is conduct disorder diagnosed here in the UK? The sites I found from a quick google looked American based.

I will look into the local early help, I'm not protecting him from police intervention they just haven't got involved, when they brought him home that was it really, I think they did note his name down but he hadn't been in trouble or known to them so they didn't do much. When he was throwing bricks, I was shown the dashcam footage by a neighbour that lives a few houses away and he did phone the police on the non emergency number but they didn't come out, I think he did send them the footage but they weren't throwing them at people/things so I don't think they took it seriously which is a shame as maybe that would scare him into behaving.. Or not

Conduct order is diagnosed here. Yes. And it sounds like he may it. The police don't come for petty stuff these days. But it's the idea that if he returns home to you and he's very unhappy with that, he will turn to more serious things. Approx 1 in 4 with CD turn to crime and if you have ADHD too, it's even higher.

I hope he can find the thing that makes him feel alive and happy, rather than angry and down. Wish you all the best OP.

I am sorry if I am repeating others, but have you thought of him staying at the farm and moving school too? I am not sure if the farm is close or far, but being further would be a bonus for school. I think if he has a completely new scene of friends it might help, and also just having a new start and being helpful and having more of a purpose on the farm.

It sounds like the environment he is in at the moment is not working for him or for the rest of your family, and I can understand how being able to work with your father is a great alternative.

I agree with others that having therapy would probably also help, if he is up for it (obviously, you can lead a horse to water…).

This is all very worrying. He's hanging out with older friends, not going to school, lashing out at you and his siblings. I'm wondering if he has got into some sort of gang situation that he can't get out of so he likes being at the farm because he's away from whatever trouble he is in.

I'm not saying it is county lines but if it is, the best advice given by all the experts is to get your child far away from the gangs.

Is there any way you can get your DS to open up a bit to either you or your dad? If it is anything gang related I would do whatever I could to keep him at the farm on a more permanent basis. It sounds like he feels safe there.

If you force him home I worry what the impact will be on your other children. They already hate him and he is being physically violent towards them.

Definitely seek help/advice from your local authority early help team.

Good luck. I think this is one of every parents' nightmares ☹️

It looks like it’s been renamed as Conduct Dissocial Disorder in the UK, but yes, it is.

https://www.clinical-partners.co.uk/insights-and-news/behavioural-issues/understanding-conduct-disorders-in-children-and-teenagers?format=amp

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/parents-and-young-people/information-for-parents-and-carers/behavioural-problems-for-parents-and-carers#:~:text=Oppositional%20defiant%20disorder%20and%20conduct%2Ddissocial%20disorder%20sit%20in%20the,are%20having%20persistent%20behavioural%20problems.

There‘s a possibility here is that the farm isn’t actually helping feel safe and secure, but that he wants to stay because he doesn’t want to lose access to a victim.

Either way the father doesn’t want to have him permanently, and/or simply can’t.

OP it strikes me that he doesn't seem to have much in life that he actually enjoys. No hobbies, no sports, doesn't like school, nothing he's motivated by or good at. Presumably that can't always have been the case? Can you do anything to try and get him interested in something or feeling like he's good at something again?

Tell his grandad to take a bloody hammer to the phone.
Surprised he even has one after videoing people etc

Could you try 14-16 college provision? Some is funded by the local authority. But if he gets a place he has to attend to be able to go to the farm during holidays. He might prefer college and the farm would be a carrot.

I said in a PP he used to do scouts but quit last year, he's never been into sport. He used to enjoy drawing and he’d spend ages on one thing and was quite good at it but hasn't drawn anything for ages, he threw a sketch pad he had full of drawings away. Apart from that he has no other interests so since he stopped drawing all he's been doing is getting into trouble

To a previous poster, he was getting an allowance but I stopped it a while ago due to his behaviour, I'm not sure if he's into drugs but I don't think he is, he was drinking which I didn't like due to his age and it being with older lads.

He doesn't have ADHD but I will look into conduct disorder

Hi OP, I think it’s time to seek professional help and tbh I’m shocked the school haven’t suggested this already. Reach out to CAMHS and look into residential schools, this may be the safest option for him. I don’t mean a fee paying boarding school, but a local authority run one (or a private one if LA will fund) for kids with high needs. You should also try reaching out to social services as they can help with respite and other kinds of support. All of the above is easier with some kind of diagnosis though so it’s important you engage CAMHS/your GP for a referral asap.
Best of luck, honestly 🌺

@CuriousVital This is a horrendous situation for you all. Your son possibly may have some undiagnosed SEND.

However, it does seem that your ex, his step-dad, leaving caused him a lot of trauma. Although he was very young when his dad left, or you left the dad, it was still a trauma and would have had a big effect. With gentle respect, I'm not getting the impression that you are fully accepting this and appreciating that those wounds needs to be addressed as part of addressing his behaviour.

@Drfosters

he can't stay. The brothers girlfriend - did you not read about that. He can’t and for good reason

I'll look into a 14-16 college, does it work like a college for 16+ where they study one course or is it similar to school? I think he'd enjoy art as he was going to pick this for one of his options but was told he couldn't due to limited numbers which is a shame as art was the only subject he was passionate about, his options now are a random mix and he's not going to enjoy them if he even goes to school. But I don't know as like I said he's stopped drawing and threw his sketchpad away.

His stepdad didn't leave him as I said he's still offered contact and wants to see him, he treated him as his own and all the DC equally.

I will reach out to CAMHS and Early Help, I just don't know how it all went wrong

Just a thought (and another reason why police/SS involvement might be good to rule it out), do you think there is any chance the gang he’s been hanging out could be tied up in county lines? If he had a good childhood and only became disconnected from past interests and acting out when he started hanging out with ‘older boys’ it’s possible they are trying to groom him? He could have been encouraged to things he wouldn’t ordinarily do to fit in, which has spiralled. But the thing that stands out the most is how much he now doesn’t want to return, is it because he truly doesn’t want to or that he’s scared to and can’t say way and is pushing people away? Don’t get me wrong, I certainly hope that’s not the case but worth reaching out to professionals to ensure it’s not!

@HerLivingontheHill

no, this boys want to stay on the the farm does not trump a young woman’s safety.

If he likes art maybe see if CAMHS have access to an art therapist

That's really sad that the one subject he is actually passionate about he couldn't get to do 🙁

Are there any agricultural colleges near you, OP? They tend to have more of a relaxed atmosphere. I don't know if it's a mixture of finally being around lots of other farm people, being there because you want to, and because farm kids tend to be a lot more down to earth. Anyway, some agricultural colleges do courses for 14-16 year olds, with GCSE courses on the side.

I work with a lot of students that are apparently disruptive and hard work in academic lessons. On the farm, they are an absolute dream because they are usually excellent at the practical skills, it is sometimes 1:1 and I'm not an intimidating authority figure to them. Needless to say, their tutors are amazed at the positive feedback they get from their time on the farm!

WTF have I just read. His mum should override a 20 year old who has been harassed by a misogynistic, out of control teen?

Ffs, I hope you don’t have any girls that you're responsible for because your attitude towards women is a disgrace.