DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

Perhaps he just doesn’t want to be surrounded by siblings- 3 is a lot, particularly as his youngest came into his life when he was 10. Perhaps it is for the best he stays where he is for the time being?

Leave him there. It’s for the best. He’s better off, so are your other children and so are you. I certainly wouldn’t want him home under these circumstances.

Why should Op's dad take him on though?

Because otherwise a 15 year old lad could find himself alone on the streets in a dangerous situation.

Sorry if I have missed it but where is DC's dad in this?

But OPs dad has said he can’t stay there so it’s not really up to OP or her son

Abusive piece of shit who isn't around

She has said her dad cannot have him: it’s understandable- in three weeks he has had attitude, been moody and made a young woman uncomfortable. Her dad is a farmer - he cannot be responsible for severe behaviour problems and run a farm… especially as he cannot be left alone with a female farm worker.

whilst it could potentially be the best place for him - it is not a possibility

She has said her dad cannot have him: it’s understandable- in three weeks he has had attitude, been moody and made a young woman uncomfortable. Her dad is a farmer - he cannot be responsible for severe behaviour problems and run a farm… especially as he cannot be left alone with a female farm worker.

whilst it could potentially be the best place for him - it is not a possibility

It’s not just about discipline, consequences and boundaries - they need role models and positive experiences as well.

He’s being a mean, nasty little shit because it gives him something he’s missing. Things he should be getting from other sources - sport, useful activity, being successful in something positive. Love and attention.

Is there no alternative provision he can access? Places that do more activity based learning? 14-16 at College where he can do a course?

He’s telling you he doesn’t want to be at home. It doesn’t work for him whatever is happening there currently. If the plant isn’t thriving , don’t blame the plant blame the environment.

I think you should sit down with your DS and your Dad and have a frank conversation about why he wants to stay there. What makes there better than being with you. It sounds very much to me like an angry little boy who wants attention - any attention, good or bad. What does he want?
Does he feel valued there and not at home?
Does he feel like he comes last at home?
Does he feel you don’t listen?
Did the “bad crowd” make him feel like he had some sort of respect or brotherhood?

You need to understand the why before you can make changes. Really listen, make sure your other children are out the way and he is the priority.
Can you change his school or online school- even if someone has to take your younger children? All your children are equally important and at the moment the eldest needs you.
Can you make time to spend with him alone?
Can you find clubs, join a gym or jobs that would help him feel valued?

When you go in to this, I would suggest you start the conversation on all the things he has done to improve himself and how you are proud of those achievements. Whatever you do, do not start it on a negative or let him think it is better without him. If you do, you will never get him back.

That's why I suggested they come up with a behaviour contract if he wants to stay.
Maybe the OPs brother and girlfriend could be part of the negotiations.
If this lad wants to stay on the farm he needs to be given strict rules and boundaries.
He breaks them then it's over and he has to go home.
If he is serious about wanting to stay then I think he should be given the chance.

He sounds very troubled. Are you able to move closer to your dad? Maybe a fresh start for the whole family might not be a bad idea. Presumably your 15yo daughter is just about to start year 10? 11 year old just going to start secondary school etc… I know it’s not ideal, but from what you’ve written you DS is heading down a dark path and needs drastic intervention.

He's too young.
The army is not a dumping ground for lads with problems although many do go there.

No - the girlfriend does not need to be involved. Woman should bot be made to be the solution in a males shit behaviour

she is uncomfortable. In her workplace. Pisses me off when a woman’s feeling is not the priority

I feel very sorry for your son.
He's had 2 'fathers' in his life and both have left.
He's without a good male role model.
But he's also the eldest child and trying to find his feet.

Have you been referred to any support by his school?
Counselling, mentoring etc?

There are mentors available in many town, run by national charities who will support boys like yours, 1:1 support each week, out of school.

Have you investigated anything like this or has his school?

Perhaps he should have behaved at the farm then?

Simple posts like this aren't helping anyone are they?

Why shouldn't she talk to him?
She needs to tell him why it makes her uncomfortable and tell him why he shouldn't do those things.
Unless he isn't told how is he going to know exactly why she is so uncomfortable.
He is 15. This is the time for him to learn this and it coming from her may make him take it more seriously.

It’s very clear he knows exactly what he is doing….

And if she doesn’t want to talk to him or be around him - she should not be forced to!!

Sounds like he can't be trusted with a smartphone. He also needs medical intervention - i.e. a pychotherapist/counsellor as his behaviour and lack of remorse is very abnormal.

I would think that being at your dad's farm and having a sense of purpose is good for him.

A family friend used all her savings to send her son, who was 14 at the time, to a prestigious boarding school in another country. She had never been to that country before but pretended they were going on holiday and took his passport so he couldn't come home - it had to be a tourist destination as he would not have gone with her otherwise. She visited as often as she could but he really was on his own.

He didn't understand at first and was very angry with his mum for some years, but a few years later credits the intervention as what saved his life (he was involved in London gangs, drug use and knife crime at the time).

I think your son needs urgent, and possibly extreme, intervention now to avoid his life continuing in the direction it's already going in. The farm is a good start - but you need to separate him long term from the peers he associates with and put him in a better environment. Could you afford boarding school?

Neither are ones repeatedly saying he should stay at the farm when Op has clearly stated why it isn't possible.

The boy’s father can make alternative arrangements then. The child is there - let him find a solution. OP has other children who don’t deserve to be terrorised by their older brother; the needs of all these children can’t be sacrificed for the benefit of one, who doesn’t want to be there in the first place.

No she doesn't if she doesn't want to.
Personally for me - as a female - I would want to be the one to tell him exactly why I was uncomfortable with his behaviour. I would want it to come from me because that would show how serious it was.
But everyone is different.