DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

Would the discipline and male role models of joining the army be a good idea?

A lot of people seem to have missed the bit where you said it was meant to be temporary. I had a similar problem with my eldest and I contacted social services ( this was thirty odd years ago). They got him a place in a hostel which he used as a stick to beat me in later years, but at the time I just couldn't cope with him. I'm not sure what the answer is.If your dad doesn't want him there then he will have to make it clear to your son. I think therapy might be needed, speak to social services or your doctor about this, your son is clearly unhappy and needs to talk about it.

Yup

He's a savage little shit. Nothing justifies throwing a 5yo girls new doll on a railway track. What the hell has she done?!

I so wish I could buy her another one.

The army don't recruit children.

I think you need to find a way for him to stay there. He's happy (or as happy as he's capable of being) and not getting into trouble. Enrol him in a local school or pretend he's being home schooled - he can pick up his education later as it's probably wasted on him now anyway. It sounds like he needs to work and have a male role model. If it was me, I'd make that happen.

OP please don't lose hope-my son went through a very tricky patch but sometimes a change of scene/role models can be so helpful. If he can work on the farm & be busy, useful & feel valued this will help his self esteem so much.

Well if your dad can't have him there it isn't your sons choice whether he stays is it? He sounds like he's a bit too used to ruling the roost at home.
It's fairly black and white, he comes home or he finds another family member to stay with (his dad?) or stays with a friend etc.
He sounds like he's just got a case of 'Billy Big Bollocks' at home and could use a male relative setting him straight and continuing the work your dad has done with him.

He's not 16 til next summer but he'll only be starting year 10 this year due to deferring as he's August born. So he has 2 years left at school.

Good to see the other side of deferring the August born. Doesn't necessarily work when they're a violent teen that they have to be at school for an extra year and need a change.

I’d contact social service if they are not involved already. You clearly need more support. Does he have any SEN?

Does your dad live on the farm? if he can’t work on the farm, can he live with your dad and go to school there?

They do. You can join at 16. Worth looking in to it beforehand. Doesn't have to wait till his 16th birthday before looking into it

How would you make it happen? Her dad has said he cannot stay there. It doesn't sound like it's her dad's farm, sounds potentially like he is a farm labourer with accommodation and the owner doesn't want OP's son there indefinitely.
How would you make him stay there?

This might sound cruel but refuse to take him and get social services involved. My cousin did this when her son was around this age, lots of what your talking about, the final straw was his misogynistic treatment of his sister, she wouldn’t allow it and he ended up in foster care for just under a year. He regretted it very quickly and have a very good relationship now.

im not saying it is the right fix, but right now you have young children to protect, even his own twin is uncomfortable with him around her, that all types of wrong.

Your poor ds.... I also have one that's acting out in a similar manner, except he's 13.

If he really can't stay with your dad, or even if he can, then you really need to look for some help for him.

His school sound awful tbh. My ds's school have given him extra help, made allowances if he's got there late, he was going out for a walk and chat once a week with the therapy dog and owner, pastoral support and they've pointed me in the direction of some help. Have a look for mentoring and counselling, it's definitely out there. It's not instant, but it is there. I'd also think about self-referring to Child Services, they've also been great.

She said ‘My dad owns a farm’. So it’s the dad’s farm. Tough if someone else doesn’t like him I’m afraid. It’s his farm and he gets to say if he stays there.

They’re not at school for an extra year, they’re there for exactly the same length of time.

How far away is the farm?

I think this is a wonderful escape for him.

He is obviously struggling with home life and the issue with getting in with the wrong crowd, is that you can't get out of it very easily.

I would support him and tell him that he can stay there until just before he has to go back to school and then return on weekends and school holidays (if not too far and its ok with your dad).

He just wants some attention and a father figure.
This should mature him and give him something positive to focus on.

It will hopefully be a reward system, so that if he acts a pain at home then he doesn't get to go to the farm that weekend, as they cannot risk him acting silly.

I'd tell him he needs to come home but he can return in the holidays if he attends school and stops his bad behaviour.

I'd also arrange counselling or a referral to CAMHs at he has a lot to process. My friends son was similar and it was helpful in the end.

If he refuses you will have no choice but to call social services.

It's my dads farm and he lives on it but one of his employees is my younger brothers girlfriend and she accused my son of taking photos of her, my dad went off to do something and had given my son something to do so he wasn't there when this happened but later checked my sons phone and there were no photos he’d taken so he'd either deleted them or it didn't happen but since then she's said she isn't comfortable around him so it isn't possible for him to stay living on the farm as my dad can't always be supervising him and seeing what he's up to.

He doesn't have any SEN, his behaviour has always been challenging but he just finds being told off funny, he just laughs. Consequences wouldn't work, he laughs. If I take his phone or whatever he’d get my 11yo to give him his iPad, let him play on his Nintendo switch etc because he'd threaten him (I obviously didn't know at the time!)

His school isn't the best re his behaviour, they just put him on report, in isolation or detention, there was talk of a managed move before summer but then that went quiet too. He would get up and dressed and leave the house but then not go in, I had to get my younger 2 to school so taking him in wasn't an option.

And yes maybe deferring wasn't a good idea but it felt like it at the time, he wasn't ready for school at all. He was also born at 33 weeks so he started school at the time he would've hadn't he been born early. He would've struggled if id started him a year earlier than I did

Honestly, I’d implore your dad to keep him there for longer. Some hard graft might do him some good, the change of scene and lack of bad influences too. My nephew is older but has been allowed to get away with awful behaviour since a young teen and is now pretty much a lost cause, his parents let him get away with anything. I know it must be hard for you, it sounds like the farm really might be the best place for him.

It might be impossible, true, but I'd definitely be sitting down with my dad and seeing if there was a way to make it happen, whether that's the son living in a caravan (very common with agricultural labourers) or something else.

I'd guess that the son might actually be relieved to get away from the 'wrong crowd', hence the desire to stay on the farm. One of my daughter's BF's brothers got in with the wrong crowd and was killed two weeks ago in a drug-related incident, aged 18. Bringing him back to an environment - that he doesn't even want to be in - that will result in him falling back into old patterns of behaviour just seems like it's asking for trouble.

it sounds like you might benefit from exploring other options for him beyond the school he is currently at.

if he did enjoy the farm, then some FE colleges or agricultural colleges will take students from 14. Would he be interested in something like that?

he’d do some GCSEs (a reduced number) but get practical experience and qualifications.

Him going to the farm at holidays also sounds good.

it’s a pity that there has been an incident that means your dad doesn’t feel able to keep him around.

You need to get to the root of his anger…….have the conversation with him, ask him what he wants from life (not saying he will get it) but give him chance to actually have a conversation rather than the destructive behaviour and nasty words.

At the cost of making a woman feel unsafe?

Would your dad consider having him on the weekends and holidays if he'd be more civil during the school week, or does he live too far away for that to be doable?