DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

So there’s no concrete proof of these photos being taken who do you believe? Has he taken photos of girls before and in what context are we talking was she doing something in particular to warrant a photo? Am assuming everyone is also assuming that said photos (if there are photos) were because of a pervy cause? Or… sorry I’m going off piste a bit here but is she something ‘different’ to look at was he taking the pee out of her appearance and she’s embarassed? If she’s claiming he was taking pictures she must be aware of what she was doing at that particular time. Did he catch her doing something?

Sorry so many questions about these supposed photos that nobody knows exist or not.

In terms of porn some people aren’t comfortable with it but I’m sure on 90% of boys/lads/mens phones there’s some sort of porn search.

Yes, as I said upthread, that intervention should already be in place. It really needs to be.

My apologies. I missed your post up-thread
Yes, I agree with you. And I'm surprised this isn't already actioned (if it isnt)
The lad can't stay with his grandfather, that's just so unfair.
The EHA and subsequent assistance, should be very useful

Why would she lie?
She was on the opposite side of the farm and he was seen running back to his side. Come on. Be serious.

She said he took photos of her. No photos were found.
She'd lie for all kinds of reasons. Sees him as a nuisance if nothing else.

A 15 year old can absolutely pose a threat to a 20 year old woman. He’s disdainful and hostile towards women, and has already been physically violent towards his twin. Why wouldn’t she uncomfortable around him?

What authority does OP have to override her here? It isn’t her farm, it’s her father’s, and her father believes the girlfriend and does not want his grandson there permanently. If OP wades in, accuses her of lying, and tells her to put up and shut up, how do you think that will go with her father and her brother?

Don't apologise! I'm amazed that it's not in place, school refusal and police intervention? I agree that's very strange that no intervention has happened.
I can't think why not.

Because no one ever deletes photos, or pretends to take them as a way of intimidating someone 🙄

This is a kid that had a known history of hostility towards women. He also had no business being around her that day at all.

What do you want us to say OP?

Poor you, you have done your best. You would be well within your rights to sack this project off and leave him at your Dad’s?

Lots of us have given you advice, empathy, kindness and options and you have immediately discounted everything without even trying.

Your kid is crying out for help. No matter how difficult is you don’t just give up. Pull it together, stop saying it won’t work and find a way to talk to him. Ask your Dad to help but don’t expect him to take over and deal with it. Your DS is 15, not fully cooked but you can have an intelligent conversation if you stopped looking at all the bad stuff that has happened and started asking how you can make it right. Tell him you want to work together and see where it goes.

100% agree with this. Living and working on a farm might be just what he needs. Is there any way he could be home educated there? Would the school support by providing work packs/online learning? Or a fresh start at a local school?

It’s also possible that he wants to stay not because it’s doing him any good, but because he has a fixation on his uncle’s girlfriend and doesn’t want to lose access to her.

That is also worth seriously considering, as unpleasant as it may be.

The school won't do online learning. He is obviously still registered there, so a decision will have to be made, and soon.

This sounds very difficult OP 😕

Given that he cannot stay with your Father and also given his behaviour towards his siblings (hitting his twin, destroying the younger one's toys etc), I would contact early help and social services and ask for an urgent assessment.
Out of hours/Bank holiday you should be able to contact MASH (Multi agency safeguarding hub) for your area - if you Google MASH <your area> you will find the number. If your dad brings him/tries and he runs away, contact the police.

When you speak to someone, explain the whole situation, everything that has happened, police involvement etc.

He sounds extremely troubled and there could be lots of reasons for that. The early help assessment should be useful.

It's worth also trying to contact school - lots of senior staff will be working/on their emails this week as we are getting ready for term starting.

You could also try your GP for support.

You'd need to call social services and see what they suggest, surely? Or try and be onto the police maybe a community officer could have a stern word with him
Otherwise what can you do, wait until he's 16 and kick him out? Get him to join the territorial army? Lol
He can't stay at the farm if he's harassing other employees and has a shitty attitude so you'll have to get your dad to drop him back. If he keeps running away then so be it, you'll have to just keep being onto social services and the police or other local charities
There might be a local youth offending service or youth project you could refer him to. Wouldn't he be a county lines risk or prevent risk for his misogyny?

Ive not been told about Early Help or any services. We live in a small town so not sure what's on offer if anything. I do worry the police will be involved properly, he's lucky they aren't already if I'm honest. I don't know what a poster meant by “focus on parenting your 3 children so they don't turn out like this” as if I'm being blamed? I do parent them, I don't know why he's like this. My youngests dad isn't misogynistic or anything like this, it wasn't a huge messy breakup.

He hasn't seen his bio dad since he was about 3, DS2 was a few months old and his dad doesn't even know where we are.

About the photos - this is the girlfriends version of events as DS has lied and said he didn't move from where he was supposed to be despite my dad seeing him running back, when challenged he said it wasn't him and my dad must’ve been mistaken.

She said he was wandering around, she asked if he was ok and he told her he didn't need her, he was looking for my brother and not her and she explained that he was off elsewhere and asked why and he told her to follow him because he needed help then when they got there he seemed to change and asked her why she was there, he doesn't need her, she wouldn't know what to do etc and then held his phone up to her as he he was taking a photo and when she asked if he took a photo he ignored her then after she went back to where she was and he kept wandering around near her as she was working for seemingly no reason at all but he was making her uncomfortable and she asked him to go back to where he needed to be and he ignored her just didn't go back until he decided to himself (presumably when my dad saw him running). Whenever she tried to move away from him he'd just follow her and be in her area again. My dad does believe this version of events but no photo was found but who knows he could've hidden it somehow as teens are much better at tech than us.

Apologies if this is a drip feed.

I would contact social services and ask for help i do think he needs it as do you, tell them everything. I am.not in England but it sounds like he needs that assessment Pp are talking about.

This. I wouldn’t be surprised, based on OP’s description, if there’s conduct disorder at play here, which is often a precursor for a much more serious diagnosis as an adult.

And her son? He will feel very justified in his behaviour. I can’t believe ppl are making the young woman accountable for the boys actions!! Unreal.

ah never mind

Exactly.

This kid is showing very disturbing behavioral traits that could and probably will escalate if this isn’t tackled hard now.

@CuriousVital I don't know why he's like this.

Trauma, 100%. The same reason any of us display maladaptive behaviours. Has he ever accessed any kind of therapy? It will probably be a huge battle but you need to get him into good quality therapy ASAP.

Call your local council children's services right now before they close for the week and ask for an urgent Early Help Assessment. Say that there are safeguarding concerns for your other children if he comes home and that he is about to be evicted from the farm.

If him being there works for your dad do everything you can to leave him there. What he was doing to his younger siblings was abusive, you couldn't keep all of your DC safe, the one in question was on a very destructive path and getting to an age where reversing that gets more challenging. If him staying there won't be agreed maybe he needs to be accommodated by social care, I very rarely suggest that but him being out of your house is clearly benefiting all DC, making all of them safer after they were all at serious risk.

The police becoming involved won’t necessarily be a bad thing tbh. You may think keeping them away is protecting him, but police involvement can be a trigger for intervention, which he desperately needs.

If he continues on the path he’s on their involvement will be inevitable, and quite possibly for a much more serious offence.

@CuriousVital you’re update to her side of the story is worrying. If no one else was around at the time I’d have been quite uncomfortable to say the least! If you google ‘Early Help Assessment’ your local one will be listed.

Social services, the police etc are your friends in this situation. He’s out of control and you are very limited in what you can do.