DS doesn't want to come home

[CuriousVital]

I feel awful arm, prepared to be flamed.

I have 4 DC B/G twin just turned 15, 11yo DS and a 5yo DD.

I've had a tough time with my 15yo DS, he's got into the wrong crowd and involved in petty crimes like shoplifting - usually energy drinks from the corner shop. Throwing bricks and was caught on a dash cam, drinking, school refusal. Hadn't been to school since May and school weren't that helpful but tbh his behaviour was terrible when he was there too. He's had sex with a girl in his year and then was quite horrible to her and if she got pregnant he wasn't going anywhere near “it”, thankfully she isn't pregnant it was just a possibility as he didn't use protection. He says misogynistic things toward DD and they used to be close but she hates being around him.

Dad not involved, he was financially abusive and emotionally toward me. I split with my youngest’s dad 2 years ago and he was my older childrens father figure, I think this affected him more than he lets on but ex still sees his twin and my 11yo, he just doesn't want to know.

The summer holidays started and it was a nightmare, he hit his twin, broke my 11yos lego tower (on purpose), they share a room but I've partitioned it so he had no need going near it. He just laughed as he cried and filmed him and said he's going to show his new classmates. Threw my 5yos doll over the fence, which leads to a railway track so couldn't get it back, it was a birthday present that she’d had about a week so she was obviously distraught. I couldn't afford to replace it as money is tight, he has no allowance. He was trouble outside the house too, police brought him home once due to him being antisocial in the middle id town. Stole a younger child's (neighbours child) scooter but swears blind it was his friends not him but the child has said it was him. You get the picture.

My dad owns a farm so I had had enough and sent him there, he's been there for about 3 weeks, celebrated his birthday there and home has been peaceful. My dad has said he's been moody and full of attitude but has helped a bit on the farm. He blames me for everything, said I have the problem not him, I'm useless etc. He's meant to come home Monday but he's refusing. Said he's not coming back, he hates me, his siblings and isn't going to school. I sent him away so why should he come back, he'll run away and stay with his mates if he's forced to come back.

What the hell do I do??

I'd leave him right where he is. This sounds like more than sibling squabbling/fighting. Your other children deserve better.

Find a way to have him stay on the farm attend local school

The farm is about a 3 hour drive away so can't go at weekends unfortunately. I'm not sure if there's a 14+ college but ill look into it, would it be too late now though for this academic year seeing as it's about 2 weeks away? My youngest’s dad hasn't abandoned him, he still wants to see him it's just DS that refuses.

The plan was my dad brings him back on Monday and we go on a small UK break (myself, DC's and my dad)

I don’t understand the people saying to leave him where he is… the grandparent has said he cannot stay and there has been an incident in which a woman does not feel safe!!

i would be on at the school about the managed move and mention that your son has enjoyed the manual labour. There is a PRU in my area that is a farm which has a lot of success with disengaged children where a normal school environment just doesn’t work. There might be an alternative provision the school could suggest?

I think your son has adhd.

So everyone who behaves with violence has ADHD.

It's kind of insulting to people with adhd, among other things, to suggest that.

I stand corrected, but this lad is only just 15 this month and showing a loathing of authority. He'd have to really want it to stand a chance and currently I can't see it's a viable option. And still leaves the problem for his mother of what to do with him for the next year until the September 2026 intake.

I'm torn between hoping his grandfather can be persuaded to take him on and celebrating the grandfather putting a young woman's safeguarding needs first.

If he’s not attending school anyway, what difference does it make? He’s clearly happier there and by the sound of it away from the trouble of a bad peer group and around more positive male role models.

Deferral or not, he can legally leave school next June.

Can you and your dad sit down with him and come up with a plan to get him to that point.

A woman’s safety, job and livelihood have to come first.

I do agree he most likely needs strong male role models. Studies in America have shown the biggest influence to join gangs and other anti social behaviour in boys is not having an active father figure in their life.

If he is serious about wanting to stay there then you, him and his dad need to sit him down and say he can with strict conditions.
The main one is no taking photos or making anyone feel uncomfortable.
That's the ultimate no. If he does that again then no more farm.
Respect that it's a working farm so no pissing around on/with equipment.
If he has agreed to do certain farm tasks then he must do them as it's a working farm.
If he agrees to that then perhaps he can stay on a trial basis.
Not sure about school. Would he go to the local school?

Why would the army want to take a child who does not want to be there? I think social services is a possibility but they are overstretched and may not feel this meets threshold unless OP refused to have her son back in her house other DC are at risk. And there is a chronic shortage of foster carers so no guarantee son would be in a family.

What about alternative provision for some/all of the week for him? The ones I know of are all based around horses however I have heard of farming based alternative providers - council website should give you some info. That way he’s coming home but going into an educational setting that he might be more engaged with, learning skills he can use when he goes to the farm during holidays

I would feel relieved he was with my Dad in a rural area and not on the streets.

What does your Dad say in all of this? You haven't said if he is happy or not for him to stay? I get there is the brothers girlfriend issue but that is up to your Dad to set some boundaries there. As much as it pains you that he won't come home this could also help to set him some structure that doesn't involve shoplifting or throwing bricks or underage sex. This was never going to be resolved in a couple of weeks. It sounds like he needs this time. .

He sounds like he does have undiagnosed SEND.

School refusal, oppositional.

I phrased it as a question for the OP. "Would the discipline and male role models of joining the army be a good idea?" A suggestion for her and her son to consider whether it could work for him. I didn't say they must definitely do it.

Just a different perspective on one point: when kids/teens laugh or smile when told off or disciplined, it isn't usually because they actually find it funny. It's partly a fear response - it's a nervous response, they know they're in trouble and as little ones they learn that smiling or laughing will soften a parent's attitude, so they keep hold of this coping mechanism without realising why, and without realising it doesn't work anymore.
It's also partly about saving face. He doesn't want you to know that it does indeed bother him, and he'd rather risk the consequences of further punishment than ever admit to being vulnerable.

Again, I didn't say he must definitely join the army even if he doesn't want to. We don't know that he wouldn't want to.

I'm also echoing PPs wrt there is likely a sense of relief that he has got out of the situation he was in with 'the wrong crowd'. He wanted out, but didn't know how to. This way, he can get out of the situation without being held accountable by his old friends - you become the bad guy and he can rail against you because you won't leave him for being uncool.

Fair point well made.

Ah its so sad, so many mums these days suffering at the hands of arsy teenage sons. As a single parent there's also a lot of them doing it "because they can".

I agree you need him out of the house and away from you as much as the situation allows. Not just all the reasons given, but also to show him that you demand a minimum standard of decency and respect.

If it continues, then sons like this can often go on in life to treat their girlfriends/partners in the same way. Don't enable that, you need to show him it's not acceptable by removing him from the situation, and eventually you could reasonably hope he'll also learn more respect for you from that boundary.

You are not alone in this, I do think it's a growing thing, teenage bullies to their mums, so keep posting if it continues. Don't let it get to your self esteem, there are many of us who have had similar, and you are worth way more.

There is cadets, can be great for some kids.

If he is making the girlfriend uncomfortable then of course her safety is paramount, some young boys seem to be.easily influenced to not actually like girls/women do you think this is him? I don't know what I would do to be honest. Can you contact social services or ask school pastoral care,

Leave him there. I really feel for you but sounds like your dad having a farm could be a great outcome for him. Also having a male influence around may help him grow up. I was once a nightmare child (no police record but there could have been and I wasn’t emotionally cruel, but I HATED my mother at that age), same for many of my friends-I felt awful as an adult when my DF told me the only time he had cried as an adult was over me, and that he felt he’d lost control of me completely. I’m sure I read something years ago that said at around about age 13-15, the main influence in life is 90% your peer group and 10% your parents! There probably loads more info online these days, but that was very true for me. Also, I did secretly adore my dad and was very lucky to have a father in my life, he did, however tell me “if you come home pregnant you’re out of this house” and “if you had turned out gay I’d have written you out of my will” 🤣
None of those threats made the slightest difference to how I behaved, (and most of my friends came from decent families) but I just found the wild kids so exciting and cool. I’m sure it’s the same generations over - my own boundaries would be if my kids were cruel to another child, person or an animal; there would be severe consequences.
Luckily my own DC made better peer group choices and they were both very academic. (I also had a ‘last resort’ plan too-if they’d got involved with drugs I’d have actually move them away to the other side of the country if it were an option).
Wishing you all the best 💐

@aCatCalledFawkesMy dad has agreed he can stay during holidays but not full time, mostly due to my younger brothers girlfriend feeling uncomfortable around him, she's 20 she shouldn't be uncomfortable in her workplace (not that anyone should!). Although there was no evidence on his phone that he had taken a photo, my dad did believe her over him due to his behaviour toward girls here and the underage sex and misogyny and he had multiple searches for porn whenever I checked his phone (they were blocked on the wifi) but whenever I tried to talk to him he'd say he wasn't a baby and he should be allowed unrestricted access. Wouldn't listen about how awful porn is. Luckily there wasn't any other misogynistic content but his comments are. And RE the photo incident, DS shouldn't have been anywhere near my brothers girlfriend at that time, he had no need to be as what he was meant to be doing was in a separate part of the farm to her. And my dad did catch him running back to where he was supposed to be so he must’ve spotted my dad and that shows he was doing something he shouldn't have been.

It has been peaceful and I haven't been worrying about what sort of trouble he's getting into, even the police didn't scare him when I said next time he may potentially be taken to a cell and not just home, he shrugged and said so what