To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

[ThatNimbleKhakiAnt]

Traditional gender roles may not have been perfect but at least they provided structure. Now everything is blurred and instead of progress, we just have confusion. Are relationships stronger? Are people happier? I don’t think so. It feels like in trying to fix things, we’ve just made everything messier.

AIBU to think we’ve lost something valuable?

Don't be so ridiculous. But I expect this thread will be yet another of the ubiquitous drive-by goady threads. 🙄 Shall we place bets as to whether the OP will return? My money is on no. A safe bet, I would say.

hmm let me think, would I rather be a Stepford wife or be me? The only people I see not liking life as it is, are usually men because women have found a voice and they want to suppress it. They don’t like it when we aren’t their second mothers and expect them to behave like adults!

I agree about going against gender roles has caused confusion, but only so far as, society now means all masculinity = man and all femininity = woman.

Gender, in and of itself is bullshit. We have males and females.

I don't think there are male roles and female roles, I think everyone should have the opportunity to take up roles that work for them and their set up at home.

I do worry that women are sometimes pushed to believe that they can put motherhood off until they're in their 40s, without honesty around how conception can become difficult later in life - if being a mother is something they want for their future.

But if you're trying to imply that the world's on its arse because a woman should strive to marry and have children early on, and have failed at life if they haven't achieved this by 30. And woman = at home, baby at breast, pinny in the kitchen and man = breadwinner to be fawned over at home, your either a troll, cognitively impaired or simply an Andrew tate loving, 'red pill' gooning fool?

Hard disagree. The only difference between men and women are the biological aspects, including the ability to bear children. Everything else is made up by society. There's nothing inherent in having XX chromosomes that makes someone submissive or hyper emotional, or fond of the colour pink. Even things like long hair, wearing skirts and getting your nails done are made up expectations that have no basis in biology. It doesn't mean women can't like pink or be emotional, just that without social influences, those things would be down to your individual personality and nothing to do with your bodily configuration.

Tl;dr: Gender roles are made up and restrictive for those of us that don't fit in to them. Which is actually the vast majority of the population. Enforcing gender roles reduces most people's quality of life. Let people be who they are.

@BigKnix for me, it's more the other side of this issue, where men leave women alone and expect them to work and bring up their children alone and at the same time, and the injustice that occurs because of modern gender roles and equality

Men have always done that. Even when ''traditional'' roles were more likely.

David Sylvianplease

I think we need to play to our strengths as men/women and not feel as women that we have to have it all- have an amazing career, be a mother, do housework, be a financial provider. It's ok to pick one or two things to focus on. And it's ok to have a traditional role and be a SAHM if that's what you want. I think if both people are on the same page, it's good if one person can look after the kids, especially up to the age of 5 and one can concentrate on getting in a wage but that only works if both people are working as a team towards the common goal of looking after the family. Nothing wrong with both parents working but I dislike the narrative that a woman is not contributing to a household if they are not earning money. It's more than enough to look after kids, look after the house etc.

However, since women entered the workplace, two incomes were taken into account for mortgages and now it's much harder to manage on just one income so you have to make a concerted effort and maybe some sacrifices to afford to have just one income.

And I suspect that men might feel slightly adrift in society these days as women can and do sometimes earn more and can be financially independent. I think men have a natural desire to look after their family and to feel needed. And women do need men, men need women and we need to work together and have respect for one another.
Somewhere along the way, some imbalance has occurred and now we have to claw back women's rights (in my opinion, overly compassionate women willingly gave way to trans identifying men invading their space and some men have taken advantage of this- so women and men are both at fault here but brave, foresightful women (and men) are pushing back on this. It's a big ship to turn around though.

🙄

Its a mans world but nothing would have happened without women giving birth to them men.
Men are providers and protectors.
Well all the above can fuck right off because now us women can provide and protect ourselfs.
Its now a womans world and men dont like it and NO we are never going back to them days where men rule and women sat in the corner.
I dont want a man for money nore do i need him to protect me i can do that by myself.
I also do all my DIY my self.
I chose not to have kids or get married.
I will not be like the last gen or the one before married to sex pest chained to the home cooking cleaning raising kids dealing with his drunken arse when he falls through the door.
So you can take your traditional roles and fuck the fuck off with them.

People have strengths. Their sex often has very little to do with it.

If a man feels 'slightly adrift' in society because a woman may earn more than him then the issue is completely his own. I earn more than my husband and he couldn't care less.

Yes, people have strengths whatever their sex is.. I'm saying they should do whatever works for them and play to their individual strengths, whether that's traditional roles or not. But they shouldn't be afraid to have traditional roles either.

I'm so jealous! My DC and DDog absolutely do NOT pull their weight 😂

Picture this a young woman walking past the high street displays in the snow at night Christmas is coming and she doesn't know what the family will do for food in a few days.. she needs to get a job and soon, and her baby is only six months old.. she has a husband

Not only is her husband a bit.. um... she is taking on the role of a man in this scenario... she is acting like a man

I much prefer an equal partnership to neediness and sulking when you can no longer look down on your wifey, but whatever floats your boat.

She's acting like a responsible parent doing what it takes to provide the basics for her child. Both men and women are fully capable of doing it.

Come on. This is a traditionally male problem (within a marriage-family- unit) Can you imagine Minnie mouse doing this while Mickey gets in from work urging her to find a job because they've no food for the baby. No. He would be pathetic

I'm using Disney as a mental media tool btw not that i agree with everything they say or anything

Men in royalty and aristocracy did fuck all as well! Mr Darcy wasn’t spending 8 hours a day in the office

Hard agree! Oh so you want 50% financial contribution whilst I squeeze in a 1950s stay at home mum / housekeeper?

I think the problem with society today is the audacious expectations of men!

There's many problems these days. But women not wanting 3 full time jobs (paid employment, housekeeper and nanny) I'd NOT one of them!

@OneNeatBlueOrca I didn't know that. Would you say that the change disproportionately affected married women ?

I think the pathetic thing would be for a parent to sit at home and refuse to earn money to feed their baby. Sex is irrelevant.

Absolutely 👍

I think the people who find it most distressing are are certain subset of men. They've historically been told that their only expectation in life is to earn a wage, so when they meet a woman who earns her own money and in turn expect partnership in all other areas of life, they're left feeling hard done by. So, it really sounds like a men problem - of course, the men who don't see that as hardship, generally end up in healthy relationships and the ones who don't, surely have some reddit community they can turn to to have they're fee fee's validated.

YABU
hth

Why does dividing the human race into 2 provide structure ? Strange . Why do you get confused ? yes I am happier with people who are able to treat me as a human without needing to make boxes for me