To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

[ThatNimbleKhakiAnt]

Traditional gender roles may not have been perfect but at least they provided structure. Now everything is blurred and instead of progress, we just have confusion. Are relationships stronger? Are people happier? I don’t think so. It feels like in trying to fix things, we’ve just made everything messier.

AIBU to think we’ve lost something valuable?

The thing is, the traditional gender roles were fine if they worked for you, but absolutely dire if they didn't. Nowadays, whilst we no longer have the comfort that rigidity provides to those comfortable in their place, we have many more avenues for many more people.

Traditional gender roles were defined by men, why can't women define their own roles, or did you think men know what's best for women?

No I’m quite happy that I have been able to build a career that I enjoy, I’m also happy that DH does more than his fair share of house work and parenting.

I find gender stereotypes so unbelievably strange and damaging. Why can’t we just let people be people?

Amen

I don’t think we need roles set for us under the nonsense that is gender. You should be able to to do anything you want and are capable of whether you’re male or female, as long as you stick to things that are sex based for good reason. I can’t stand gender stereotypes, they have done a lot of damage.

In my opinion, I think some of the problems occur when some men think women now have to do all the traditional female roles as well as earn and contribute equally financially. Working class women have always had to do traditional roles and work outside the home even when you look back a hundred years. At least thanks to feminism we get the right to keep our own money and property.

also I really hate this ‘traditional’ roles that we seem to be inheriting from the U.S. Has anyone seen that interview with Pete Hegseth’s pastor about traditional male and female roles? Unfortunately these ideas are becoming more prevalent amongst the Christian far right in the US.

OP's not come back. Probably too busy cooking a nice chop for hubby's tea and warming his slippers.

Oh I see. You are so very right you don't want to debate anything. Got it

It is imperative to push back against this. To live frugally, to keep the choice for a family to live off 1 income.

People unfortunately are extremely uncomfortable with hearing the full spectrum of opinion. It smacks of insecurity and immaturity. Being ‘offended’ doesn’t make one right. Your opinion is as valid as theirs on any topic.

Nope. Because it’s risible.

You asked - I gave you an answer.

Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has them and often they are full of shit. Like this op.

In your opinion.

A friend of mine shared a brilliant article a while back with historical quotes showing how complaints about ‘modern’ androgyny and the ‘good old days’ when men were men and women were women can be found in media going back at least to the 1500s.

Having been brought up with traditional parents I was never looked after or had any interaction with my Dad apart from meal times, basically he didn't know me at all and I didn't know him. Even as an adult I didn't have a relationship with him as a bond was never formed. I am so glad things have changed in my opinion for the better.

I think we have lost the importance of parenting children and them always having a parent available to care for them. It goes beyond parenting really, the care sector is massively stretched because a lot if people don't have the time to care for vulnerable family members anymore. I think we've ended up in a position where most people need a two income household which reduces the time people can put into their marriage, children, extended family and community.
I think the burden is largely falling to women because a lot of men haven't caught up so women 'having it all' often means they're actually doing it all whilst many men do work outside the home and don't do much else to contribute.
I don't think we need to return to traditional gender roles. I do think society would benefit from being in a position where only 1 income is needed to maintain the home, be that the man or woman working or both working part time.
I think men need to catch up and realise that they are more than just financial providers. I have met many men who do great in caring roles, women aren't automatically better. I've also met many women who are great leaders and have amazing careers. We should all play to our individual strengths which aren't always related to our gender.

No I don’t think we’ve lost much tbh.

When my Dh died, thank goodness our finances and bills were all familiar to me, we had a joint account, and I had a full time job with the same pay as a man. The idea that I should have had to learn about all that or to have been left without an income at the same time as grieving him is horrific.

'Traditional gender roles' (if you are talking men providing financially, women in domestic slavery looking after children/housework; men wearing trousers/women wearing dresses and skirts; men having short hair/women wearing make-up and having long hair; men doing physical labour/women doing emotional labour; men being aggressive/women being kind and compassionate; men active/women passive etc.) are oppressive to women - and to men.

Women are adult females.
Men are adult males.
Biological sex.
Different, but one is not 'better' than the other, nor should have culturally sanctioned dominance based on their sex - 'traditionally' of course in Western society this is men (patriarchy), which goes back to interpretations of the Bible.

Many transwomen are parodying trying to enforce oppressive 'traditional gender roles' assigned to women (I'm a lady, I must do lady things) and pushing that onto women as the essence of who they are - whilst using male privilege (patriarchy) to do it. And in the process sexually fetishizing perceived 'traditional gender roles' associated with women (passivity, being a sexual object, being dominated, dressing in a 'provocative' way).

I find it most shocking when women collude. 'My biologically male child plays with dolls therefore is actually a girl'.

Transwomen are transwomen. Biological men who are enacting their imagining of what a 'woman' is. But they can't BE women.

If by "a woman being a woman" you mean all those women in the 40s and 50s who worked on average 74 hours a week just keeping hearth and home together? Or those women who worked outside the home but still did 99% of the childcare and housework at home? It was several decades before these women could have bank accounts or mortgages in their own names without husband or father co-signing, or easy access to birth control without their husband's permission. Some careers insisted on women resigning when they married.
Rape within marriage was legal. Divorce difficult to obtain. Childbirth outside of marriage stigmatised.

I always recommend Margery Spring Rice's book "Working Class Wives", much written in the words of women in the early 1930s, to anyone who looks back at the area of 'real women', and rigid societal ideas of the roles of men and women, with rose tinted glasses. It's an eye opener.

These women might have been 'real women' by your standard, but it did them bugger all good.

Is the world perfect now? No of course not. But harking back to world of constrictive notions of masculinity for men and femininity for women is not the way to go.

Kim Jong Un provides a great deal of structure to his people. Obviously, structure is inherently positive. 🙄

But seriously OP, do you really want to be told who you must be and what you must do? You really don't think the freedom to be who you are and to make choices in your own best interest is progress?

My husband and I have no confusion. We both work, manage our home and parent our children. No need for gender dictated roles, we are a team and work together.

Yeah bring back the old days where the man went down the coal mine every day because that's what his father did, and the woman stays at home and does all the wife work.
What a great structure, you can really feel the benefit of the structure when the man gets killed at work and the family get kicked out of their home.

To echo @Naunet 's comment, imo if men are pushing for something that will affect women, it's never in women's best interests.

ah yes, when men were men and wore tights.

🤣 🤣